Should I have raised KK Pre Flop

mlee · #1 02-01-2005, 11:54 PM

Had KK UTG on table with lots of raising pf. I was hoping someone raised so I could reraise. Was this a mistake. I know that in these low limit games players will stay through the river with just about anything. How do you deal with this other than committing a ton of money to the pot which gives the drawers a larger pot to bet at.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kh Ks (one pair, kings).
MP3 has Jc Qd (straight, queen high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 11 BB.

Catt · #2 02-01-2005, 11:59 PM

I haven't read any responses yet.

But the answer is: Yes. Without question.

mlee · #3 02-02-2005, 12:03 AM

I forgot to ask, at any time was this a fold or do I go all the way with it?

dealer_toe · #4 02-02-2005, 12:07 AM

I am kind of ok with the attempted Limp-reraise, but like raising more. At the table I would assume you wouldn't need to worry about coldcallers, you will get plenty. The only time you should fold is if you get told you may be beat. You played too passive to be told you were beat, so call it down.

Catt · #5 02-02-2005, 12:09 AM

Hmmm. Didn't see that there were no replies when I posted my initial response.

Do you ever fold? No way. I would've bet out on the river and probably would've lost a bit more than you by 3-betting the river (though that wouldn't be a good play). No way you fold this given the action in the hand.

davelin · #6 02-02-2005, 12:11 AM

Yes

Catt · #7 02-02-2005, 12:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am kind of ok with the attempted Limp-reraise, but like raising more.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not a good play. Raise your premium hands pre-flop. Even if you consider a limp-reraise play (which you should not do), you can't do it with KK -- one A falls on the flop and you may be behind to limpers who played A-crap.

If you're having your UTG raises folded out, you're not playing incorrectly, you're playing at the wrong table.

jskills · #8 02-02-2005, 12:50 AM

Yes - QJo won't be in the hand to beat you if you raise preflop ...

Pepsquad · #9 02-02-2005, 01:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes - QJo won't be in the hand to beat you if you raise preflop ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? What micro-limit game are you playing that sees QJo fold to one raise? In the games I play QJo can sometimes come along capped pre-flop! Regardless, the correct play is to raise KK pre-flop. Otherwise the hand was played fine and NO - you don't fold KK on the river for one more bet. In the micro-limits your hand is most definitely good 1 out of 14 times to make the river call profitable in this example.

Pep.

bozlax · #10 02-02-2005, 01:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes - QJo won't be in the hand to beat you if you raise preflop ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, in .5/1 PP games it may well be, but that's not the point. If you play the exact same starting hand 10 times, you're going to beat QJo 7 times (or whatever, it's a little late for me to be working statistics). That's how you win IN THE LONG RUN.

LAGs will find the most amazing ways to beat you. They will stay in on a capped PF and capped flop only improving Q3s to a three-flush and catch running 3s to beat your pocket aces (happened to me this morning). More likely, they'll stay in in the same situation (capped PF/flop) with a pair of 2s and Broadway cards flopped and turned, and catch another 2 on the river (also happened to me, yesterday...beat my aces-and-kings). DON'T STOP BETTING YOUR PREMIUM HANDS JUST BECAUSE SOME KNOW-NOTHING JACKASS DREW OUT ON YOU BY ACCIDENT. If you want some help remembering this, add BB/100 to your PT display, as I did (the Villans on both those beats were -50+ in less than 20 hands when they beat me).