QQ in BB

[willie24]

actually i think your equation is wrong as there is already 1 bet in no matter what. if you were to call you would "gain" 1 bet in terms of your equation. this bet is thus irrelevant and the equation would be 1*x-(1-x)*2>0, which is 67%. -or in words- you are gaining 1 bet if you win, and losing 2 if you lose. i estimated 75% with the additional chance for overcall, though you may be right that that is an overestimate- especially since you are right that i will sometimes get an overcall for 2 bets.

it is 67% though, not 60%

[jogger08152]

The preflop check is very good: QQ isn't thrilling against five opponents. You will probably need a set to win, and:
1) you won't gain much equity by raising;
2) you won't get anyone to fold by raising;
3) you'll encourage/make it correct for people to chase you down if they catch any piece of the flop by raising;
4) you'll cripple your ability to check-raise a later street by raising (and also limit the effectiveness of a check-raise at protecting your hand, as noted in 4); and
5) you'll announce your strength by raising.

The river call is awful. You may get a crazy call from the button even if you raise (remember: you didn't raise preflop), and the SB is very likely to at least call, and very likely to have a second-best hand when he does.

[jogger08152]

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Sorry but I think this is pretty simple here.


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Possibly, but you're wrong in almost all of the particulars.

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Preflop, you have QQ, raise.


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Yes, you have QQ - against five opponents. What are you trying to accomplish with this raise?

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Flop. Is the SB the type of player who would call with 2/5 (a gutshot) here?

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How about with 5-7 or 7-9 for an OESD?

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Turn, because you didnt raise preflop the range of hands that the SB could have include every 2 pair, straight draw, and made straight. You could rereraise but if you want a cheep showdown just call his raise. No problem here.

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The call isn't terrible here, but raising is better if he is going to play on after the trap-type checkraise. Yes, the hero may not be best, but hero:
A) may be best
B) may draw out (against two pair) if he isn't best and
C) wants to drive out MP1 and button, or charge them heavily for drawing to a lone pair or OESD.

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River. You put him on EXACTLY 5/7??

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How about 2-5, as you initially suggested. However, I agree that he should raise here.

[willie24]

there are 16 ways he could have 75. there are 16 ways he could have 25. there are 12 ways he could have a set, and there are 27 ways he could have either 68 36 or 34 for two pair.

this is 39 hands i beat and 32 i lose to. i'm not going to count missed draws because he is very unlikely to call a river raise with one even if it includes a pair. it might be more accurate to assume he folds 25 and 36 every time. then its 30 i beat and 16 i lose to.

the thing is though- i can't see him playing 2 pair this way 100% of the time. i can see him playing either a set or a straight this way a much higher % of the time.

thus i think i am ahead much less often than 90% the time...though it still might be higher than 67% of the time. i think its closer than you think though.

[jogger08152]

By not raising preflop you are giving up 2.5 BB? In other words, if you raise and all your opponents call, putting an additional 2.5 BB (total) in the pot, you figure to win 100% of the time?

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]

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Preflop, you have QQ, raise.


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Yes, you have QQ - against five opponents. What are you trying to accomplish with this raise?


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I seriously cannot believe that this is the quality of the posts on Mid/High....

You do realize that QQ is the third best possible hand, right?

[Nightwish]

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By not raising preflop you are giving up 2.5 BB? In other words, if you raise and all your opponents call, putting an additional 2.5 BB (total) in the pot, you figure to win 100% of the time?

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You're right. According to my PT database, QQ wins 60% of the time. So you're giving up 1.5 BB. Still awful.

[girgy44]

Next time you are in Chicago you will have to stop by my room and clean it up because there is puke all over, you do realize you have QQ right?

[Peter_rus]

Yes i was wrong.

[Peter_rus]

Yes, if you discard 2pairs and include 25 than you're ahead way not much.