raising TPTK on turn rather than flop

[willie24]

game is NL. full table $1 BB.

hero is on CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

3 limpers. hero raises to $5. 1 caller (utg2)

utg +2 is a TAG. my stack is $200. utg2 has me covered.

flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($13)

utg2 bets $3. hero calls.

turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($19)

utg2 bets $6. hero raises to $20. utg2 reraises to $55. hero folds.


i know this was an unconventional way to play this hand. against a typical opponent I always raise this flop.

I'd like to hear what you think about calling the flop and raising the turn here vs. a standard flop raise.

what am i giving up by doing this, and what, (if anything) am i gaining?

basically, i did this as a defensive play. i don't know if i was right too though.

[bholdr]

i never do this. i am sick of letting people hit their sets and straights. i almost always bet the pot. if they fold fine, my hand wasn't that strong anyway. if they call, they either have me beat or are paying too much for a draw. if they were semi bluffing, a call is no kind of defense, cause they can beat you (this is straight up TOP) when a; they hit, or b; a scare card hits. i'd say you gotta raise or fold on the flop.

[willie24]

here's what i meant by defensive:

-if i raise the flop and he reraises I must fold but am not positive I am behind
-if i raise the flop and he calls, i am not sure I am ahead, but I must bet the turn in case he is on a draw. this opens me up to being hit hard by a check-raise on the turn.
-if i raise the turn and get reraised i am 100% positive i am behind
-if i raise the turn and get called i can likely check behind on the river

[bholdr]

lol that is AQ in a nutshell. i still think you MUST bet the flop (pot it) when you hit, otherwise you are giving the pot away in too many possible situations. long term, a bet will win more than a check. (at least it does for me)

[damn_river]

i personally play tptk with a big raise on the flop. If the opponent takes bad odds to a draw, check the turn (prety much no matter what falls), see what he does....

i am interested how you are 100% if rasied on the turn? i think you are 100% after a big raise gets reraised on the flop.
damn river

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
-if i raise the flop and he reraises I must fold but am not positive I am behind


[/ QUOTE ]

Unless Villain is a bluffaholic / maniac (essentially same thing I guess) 3betting on the flop means TPTK is no good. Honestly. In fact I'd rather raise the flop so I can check the turn and call the river. (Hmm, standard for TPTK, if that makes sense)


[ QUOTE ]
-if i raise the flop and he calls, i am not sure I am ahead, but I must bet the turn in case he is on a draw. this opens me up to being hit hard by a check-raise on the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]
No, you can check behind to keep the pot small enough to snap off a bluff or fold if obvious draws hit. See above.




[/ QUOTE ] -if i raise the turn and get reraised i am 100% positive i am behind

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize you lose more money this way then raising the flop and folding to a 3bet or checking behind the turn? (Plus you get to see a river)

[ QUOTE ]
-if i raise the turn and get called i can likely check behind on the river

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless he pushes the rest in on a bluff / knowing your pot committed with whatever he has, and then you played TPTK for a stack and probably will have to call. So this isn't good.

[willie24]

good post. i enjoyed reading your take on this situation.

[BobboFitos]

thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]