5/10 drawing with AJ

[CallMeIshmael]

I'd have bet the turn. Given that line you wouldnt be able to fold the river.

BUT, given that you have taken the checkraise the turn line, Im OK with the river fold.

I mean, you just checkraised the 3-flush/4-straight card, and someone thinks he's raising you with 2 pair or less?

Unless you read him as a bluffer, Im OK with it.

[willie24]

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AA or KK if he believes you had 2 pair and were counterfieted by the river

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so if you had KK you would limp-call preflop, and then would assume that I might check-raise THAT turn with Q9? and then you expect me to call your raise on the river when I was BEAT by KK? (because if you thought i would fold when counterfeited, then you would of course just call with your better 2 pair)

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We're talking 15:1 here man.

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would you take 15:1 on a 1% chance?

[CallMeIshmael]

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so if you had KK you would limp-call preflop, and then would assume that I might check-raise THAT turn with Q9? and then you expect me to call your raise on the river when I was BEAT by KK? (because if you thought i would fold when counterfeited, then you would of course just call with your better 2 pair)

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Nice reply.

[mr pink]

i am not a fan of the flop check/raise. i would have just bet out in this spot. the board is two toned for starters. and i don't get why you'd want to get it heads up with the preflop raiser with ace high and OESD. the chances of getting 3-bet here are pretty high as well.

i also just lead on the turn since you made your hand, that board is pretty scary, villains realize that there is 4 to a straight and 3 to a flush out there.

i can understand the river fold since the flop check/3-bet means at least 2 pair and he is telling you he can beat at least a flush/straight.

[mikeyvegas]

My bad, i misread the pf action. I guess it would be hard, but I would have to make this fold too. Although i would give you a 2% chance of winning [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[willie24]

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and i don't get why you'd want to get it heads up with the preflop raiser with ace high and OESD.

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#1 i might have overcard outs
#2 Ace high might be better than what the pf raiser has
#3 If UTG2 has any spade i am cleaning up outs by getting him out (this is relatively minor, but significant)

[PokerProdigy]

I see your point, but still how can you be 94% accurate that he's NOT just throwing out a bluff (as "good" players know to do every once and a while, especially in a large pot, even if it sometimes means raising). Either way it is probably an extrememly close situation, and it will show a marginal profit or loss, yet I still make a crying call. One thing you also forget about is that making this laydown will make it more likely in the future for some players to try to bluff you out of a big pot (as I am sure some of these players may have recorded this play in their notes), and you don't want that to happen (especially from some tight opponents that would have never tried it before they witnessed this laydown).

[willie24]

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One thing you also forget about is that making this laydown will make it more likely in the future for some players to try to bluff you out of a big pot (as I am sure some of these players may have recorded this play in their notes), and you don't want that to happen (especially from some tight opponents that would have never tried it before they witnessed this laydown).

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actually i do want that to happen, as i rarely make big folds on the river. so, in the long run, bluffing me on the river is probably a losing play, and i welcome it from all of my opponents.

i dont really consider this a big, or borderline fold. i can't be winning here, ever. if a guy has the balls to bluff me here he's earned it.