inducing a bluff that might beat you

[chezlaw]

Standard play with big cards like AK unimproved out of position against one opponent you think is drawing is to bet flop, bet turn and check-call river.

What about hands like KJ or worse where your opponent might bluff the river and 'accidently' beat you with KQ or a baby ace? Is it right to just call the bluff or is it worth check-raising the river.

Example from Paradise 10/20 5 handed

I open raise in the SB with KJo, BB calls

Flop is 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Bet, call
Turn is 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Bet, call
River is 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
check, bet, call

I thought this was straightforward as BB would have been more agressive with a pair or A, but it made me wonder about check-raising the river. What if my hand had been weaker say K8, or QJ?

Thanks

Chez

[Benjamin]

River bluff raises don't work very often, but if you have a strong bead that he is bluffing it has a chance. Your suggested checkraise would probably move him off KQ, but I'm not sure about an ace, player (and strength of ace) dependant I suppose.

On the other hand, why not limit your risk and just fire another bet as your bluff? If he has a bluffing hand, he'll probably just fold. On the other hand a chronic bluffing LAG might raise your bluff on a rebluff ... I tried a rerebluff for the first time in that situation the other day and got the pot. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I don't much like calling an induced bet w/ KJ, but I guess it would have some fair prospect of taking the pot in that situation. Another advantage of checking, of course, is that he will frequently take a free showdown w/ hands that beat you and that would have called a bet.

B.

[chezlaw]

Txs, I may have it all wrong but I think betting the river is horrible here as:

BB can't call with a worse hand
BB wont fold an ace after calling the turn (+ I don't think he has an ace)

So betting is bad unless BB has KQ or KJ

Once BB bets I can't fold as I am ahead much more that 1 in 6 times (I reckon I'm a favorite to be ahead with KJ).

There is no point in me bluff raising the river as I think I'm ahead or BB has a full-house nearly all the time. But what if my hand is worse and can be beaten by many of BB's 'induced bluff' hands, now I'm more inclined to bet the river but am wondering if there are some inbetween hands like K9 where the best play is to raise the induced bluff.

the rerebluff sounds fun, maybe its time to think about rererebluffs [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

chez

[chezlaw]

bump

more thoughts anybody?

[stripsqueez]

i think raising the river is possible - it doesnt need to work often and its superb look stupid points when you get called

this position is relatively common in manilla - i think thats because with a reduced deck (its played with 7's up) there are fewer hands to think about and your a good chance to get a very precise read

stripsqueez - chickenhawk