Why is Randomness so Hard to Prove?

[chezlaw]

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It just seems to me there are plenty of things without determined outcomes. Why do we need QM to disprove determinism?

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The original poster claimed that QM could be used to disprove determinism.


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QM is not inconsistent with determinism and could never be used to disprove determinism. To see why this is true, imagine a deterministic simulation of a QM universe
[unless you make non-determinism an assumption of QM but its not a neccesary assumption]
chez

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That’s fine. If QM is not inconsistent with determinism, I do not need to do anything to show that QM does not disprove determinism, which is all I was trying to do.

I was instead making the point that the details of a particular model of some facet of the universe that is currently in vogue cannot be used to disprove determinism; which seems to achieve the much the same result.

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Yeah but you'll never convince the evidence junkies your way, they'll start wittering on about the probability that randomness exists [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

chez