Common problem with super-draws

[pho75]

I'm assuming villian was the PF raiser. Unless villian has AKc or AQc you probably have the best hand if you can get to the river. I would lead for $10 and hope to get raised by a big overpair.

[FlyingStart]

I checkraise big if villain was the PFR. If I was PFR I lead for pot (If you are gonna win a big pot with this hand you have to disguise your hand. Leading also have the advantage that you can steal the pot on the turn UI because you have AA thus far in the hand). In both cases I push if he raises again.

edit: good point about the big stacks.. maybe this calls for a slightly different different line depending on villain. Maybe slow down a little on the flop and try to get more money in on the turn when you make your hand, hopefully it will be the straight not the flush. (both would be nice if he as AKs tho [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, I'll fix the typo ASAP.

Quote:
"I try to play small pots until I have a better feel for how hard I have to push things to make him fold."

Question: Do you want him to fold the flop, or are you trying to gauge it for a move on a later street?

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I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. If the villain is going to go to the felt with AA even with a 400BB stack on a board like this, I'm not too thrilled about racing (provided, of course, that he has a nonzero chance of paying me off when I hit something). Its not that I want him to fold if I get it in with 15 clean outs twice (I don't); its that I don't need to take that kind of variance if I can win more in a different hand (say when I have a set on a board like this).

In any capped game, deep stack situations change slightly as the effect of one hand on future hands is tangible. If I lose my 400BB stack when I put it in as a small favorite, I am not likely to be able to get another shot at putting that much money in vs. this opponent again this session.

Re: my quote, I was speaking more of the hand in general than the flop action in particular. I can't get a good idea of how much pressure this guy will take with an overpair-- I need to get that information by watching him in other hands (both vs. me and vs. others at the table).

[fuzzbox]

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I'm assuming villian was the PF raiser. Unless villian has AKc or AQc you probably have the best hand if you can get to the river. I would lead for $10 and hope to get raised by a big overpair.

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Do you always like to gamble for 250BBs on a 50/50 shot?

[emil3000]

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A lead is fine, but if Villian raised this pre-flop and is checked too, he will almost always fire a bet, thus you check raise and he either lays down his overs and you win pot or he three bets his AA, KK and you suckout or he just flat calls and you have to play poker on turn. If you always lead the flop this allows overs to get away easily and I feel your hand loses value. When calling a raise with this type of hand dont we want to play a big pot with such a huge draw?

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With these kinds of hands sure you want to play big pots, but it's important how you grow the pots. You really don't crush anything until you make your hand, you're just in good shape against everything, which means folding equity is very important. Either I want to make a huge bet that has a lot of folding equity, or I want to make my hand and get my money in against a nearly dead opponent. OOP means it's harder to get paid when you hit, which means you usually take the bet/threebet line to get the money in on the flop when you're in good shape and put your opponent to a tough decision. This is way too awkward with these stacksizes. I guess you might say checkraise/push serves the same purpose, but who the hell folds after threebetting the flop. You just get money in on a coinflip. If you're flatcalled you say "play poker on the turn". Yeah sure, but the situation sucks when you miss. You now have a lot of money in the pot and a lot less equity, as well as an opponent in position whose shown a lot of strength by calling the checkraise. There will be about 250 in the pot assuming pot-repot on the flop. You now have to either check/call or checkraise all in. Real tough spot.

Check/calling is my default, lots of room to play on the turn and river, hopefully you hit your straight and not the flush.

[fuzzbox]

What exactly is the problem? What is a good line?

You can play such a strong hand in a lot of ways.

I kinda like lead for pot - if raised then just call (you have immediate pot odds). I then might check-raise the turn if I miss, or lead if I hit. Check-raising the turn with this hand is good because your FE is higher, and there is more money in the pot that you can win (you might be winning hundreds rather than 60), and you put a lot of pressure on villain.

I dont like going to the felt for this much money for this crappy pot.

Besides, I might hit on the turn and be able to get it in as a monster favourite.

[98romaine]

You did not mention pre flop action but I would lead this flop almost everytime with this type of hand. I don't like checking b/c I may miss the opportunity to start building a pot on the flop with a very good drawing hand. This is good situation to play a big pot in 250BB game.

[ahnuld]

I recently had this hapen to me, where villan was pfr and I called with suited connectors and flopped a flush draw and a pair. We both had 725 preflop. I like my line, which was lead for pot, he raises, I push. It was a big big raise but I have 5050 against anything but a set, and huuuge fold equity. If villan prf I suggest you do the same.

[teamdonkey]

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I'm assuming villian was the PF raiser. Unless villian has AKc or AQc you probably have the best hand if you can get to the river. I would lead for $10 and hope to get raised by a big overpair.

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Do you always like to gamble for 250BBs on a 50/50 shot?

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i think it's more like 54/46 against an overpair, assuming you have no folding equity. OOP i don't mind getting it in on the flop at all.

[Leptyne]

As only a small favorite on the flop I don't want to get a lot of money in now. Of course if you miss on the turn you're a serious dog.

When I'm deep stacked my play changes. I'm looking to play against weak players. I don't want to play another deep stack that is unknown when I'm OOP.