Flopped da' nuts - how to get value?

[Phoenix1010]

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If he's a huge rock I wouldn't worry about trying to get value against his one pair, I 3-bet the flop and hope he's got a set/two pair

$8? If that's your standard bet in this situation, then ok. Just keep in consinstent. I prefer minimum 2/3 pot though.

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Couldnt agree more. I think it's a crime not to 3-bet this flop; you do not want to give a free card with all those scare cards out there and you want to build the pot. He likes his hand, and he would likely push (or raise hard) trips and possibly 2 pair (?) if re-raised.

Don't know his hand range, but I'd say JJ, 88, 77 are very likely looking at pf action and your description of him as a rock.
Most rocks would re-raise AA, KK, QQ preflop? And if he holds one of those I assume you're not getting any more money in on the turn anyway unless he improves. Therefore might as well raise flop.

~$80 pot after flop with $400 behind each is not enough for my taste in this situation

And yeah, unless this is your standard flop bet then bet more than $8.

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No raise preflop, so can't reraise. This also makes JJ unlikely. Do rocks limp JJ on the button, I'm not really sure if that goes under the rock section? I think people aren't giving 87s enough consideration, but it doesn't matter much because he'll likely play that like AJ on this board. If he doesn't have a set, we don't have to worry too much about making the wrong decision later anyway since only a jack falling will potentially make him overplay a non-boat.

I think this hand is important, since these kinds of situations come up often, When you have a monster and you know your opponent has a second best hand that he will pay off with AND has a live draw that he will see to the end. Of course any money that goes into the pot when you're way ahead is in your favor, but since you know what they're drawing to you'd like to allow yourself the ability to lose the minimum when they hit and extract the maximum when they miss. This is all a matter of whether or not you think you can make up for the pot building that a flop reraise would give you if you wait until later in the hand. This is also tempered by the possibility of a scary turn card, in this case a T or 9, slowing down your action (this factor is probably canceled out by the extra value you get when your opponent doesn't have a set and pays out a bit more than if you reraise). In this spot it doesn't look like the size of the pot will be very different whether you decide to reraise the flop or check raise the turn. The only big difference is that you will be able to exploit a much larger edge by tying him to the pot with only one card to come than you would have by tying yourself to the pot with two.

Of course, if there's even a slight possibility that your opponent won't pay off a turn check raise/river lead, then you should be jamming the flop as much as possible.

[Malachii]

Push for ~400 more into like a 50$ pot after betting 8$ into an $18 pot on the flop?

[xorbie]

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Push for ~400 more into like a 50$ pot after betting 8$ into an $18 pot on the flop?

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Yeah that sounds about right.

[steaknshake925]

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Push.

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this was my first instinct as well

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Push for ~400 more into like a 50$ pot after betting 8$ into an $18 pot on the flop?

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Yeah that sounds about right.

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The more I think about it, the more I start liking this. You can almost hear him thinking "no way he does that with flopped nuts/top set"

[steaknshake925]

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Quote:

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Push for ~400 more into like a 50$ pot after betting 8$ into an $18 pot on the flop?



Yeah that sounds about right.



The more I think about it, the more I start liking this. You can almost hear him thinking "no way he does that with flopped nuts/top set"

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we dont have to think about what he's thinking. villain is a rock, he raised on that board which means hes got something really good, so why even waste time analyzing just stick the money in.

[xorbie]

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Push for ~400 more into like a 50$ pot after betting 8$ into an $18 pot on the flop?

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Yeah that sounds about right.

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The more I think about it, the more I start liking this. You can almost hear him thinking "no way he does that with flopped nuts/top set"

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Well, think about it. Villain is a rock. But he's not such a rock that he's limping QQ here (I hope not), so his hand range on this raise looks to me to be 9T, 77, 88, JJ, 78. He doesn't have J7 or J8 probably, and for 78 there are a lot of really ugly turn cards (not to mentin that rock isn't backing hist stack with bottom two pair no matter how we play it). If he has a set, just put it in.

[PinkSteel]

He's flipped his cards up: he has a set (or you're chopping). So you should be able to get maximum value by outplaying him street-for-street.

It's true there are a ton of cards you don't want to see, and 3-betting the flop would be the default play, but you'll probably slow him down if you do, and you need for him to be doing the betting if you want his whole stack.

I'd call the flop raise, check the turn. If he has a set he HAS to keep betting. If the board pairs, you're gone. If it doesn't, call his turn bet. River non-pair, checkraise all-in.

This line forsakes the bird-in-hand for the two-in-bush, but since you know his cards I think playing him on each street is greater EV.

Suppose you know he has a set, and you know how he's gonna play it, I still don't like this because ~50% of the time the board will either be paired or show a 4-straight by the river

and if by "slow him down" you mean he will call off his stack instead of betting, then yes, I agree

[4_2_it]

Play that straight fast. I would re-rasie the flop $75 more to make it look like a weak attempt to steal the rock's money. If he pushes back, all-in. Non-pairing turn card I'm puuuuushing it in.