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Old 12-24-2005, 11:15 PM
12AX7 12AX7 is offline
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Default \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

What's your standard line for this common situation?

You have PPs less than AA... an A hits the board...

Seems to me down in the micro and lower low limits folks play any A just about all the time.

Am I better off just folding rather than trying to read players that seem largely unreadable anyway?

Anyhow, just curious how other folks think on this situation.

It's so common that I think one really needs to have it figured out solidly.
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Old 12-24-2005, 11:22 PM
James282 James282 is offline
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

The problem isn't so simple. You aren't taking enough into the equation here - do you have KK vs. 2 players and the flop is A22? 44 vs. 6 players and the flop is A23? It seems to me that you don't know the questions you should be asking yet, which is natural if you are just starting out - but don't expect people to be able to be able to give you answers to questions like "what do you do when you have a pocket pair and an ace flops." You are looking for simplistic blanket answers to very complex problems - this is never a good place to start when approaching a poker situation.
-James
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Old 12-24-2005, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

There are too many factors involved to analyze your example without specifics. Pre-flop action, position, the type of opponent(s), texture of the flop are all key considerations that will affect how you play your PP vs, an ace on the board. I can tell you that auto-folding is -EV. You should find a hand where you had a PP vs. A on the flop and post it in the micro forum.
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Old 12-24-2005, 11:45 PM
12AX7 12AX7 is offline
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

Admitted, the question was lacking the detail folks around here generally want to see.

To be honest, I'd like to hear everything everyone has to say about it, so I can learn what to zero in on, in a manner that is efficient enough for multi-table play.

For example you point out number-of-opponents. Ok that's one parameter to consider. I'd think it's safe to say, more opponents staying to see the flop means greater chance one of them is holding the other ace.

In any event, I suspect there has to be a comprehensive line of analystical thought on it. Some set of principles applied at playing time.

And as you point up, there's going to be lots of situational "ifs".

And no doubt, pot size vrs. my redraw outs is a consideration too, for example.

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Old 12-25-2005, 12:50 AM
timprov timprov is offline
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

I'm a huge proponent of sytematizing just about everything I come across, but I haven't come up with a decent method for this situation. I manage to do pretty well in it anyway, so it hasn't been a huge concern.

One good general rule is to get out of protected pots. You're in a much better situation if it's just a bet to you than a bet and two calls.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:22 AM
12AX7 12AX7 is offline
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

Hi Tapirboy,
Yes, I think I follow. This is the situation DS talks about in places where "Opponent A bets, B calls, and you should get out if you can't beat B, because B made the obvious read and thinks he has it beat already"

Wow, that was wordy. But I think what are essentially saying is, "if the action is heavy, get out".

But here's the thing. Maybe this is the LAG phenomenon some speak of. There are times when it's just been two folks in a pissing/raising contest and niether had anything! LOL!

Anyone else hate when they lay down a winner. LOL!

Anyway, I realize it's all about imperfect info, so chances are we'll never get to a 100% solution.
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

Just flop quads. The best method is to point at the screen and yell "X!" with x= your pocket pair.
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Old 12-25-2005, 04:38 AM
gezuz gezuz is offline
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

Clearly it depends on the stakes and whether it is NL or L, but I always lead out with my pp if I preflop raised. If I just limped for a set I fold. If it's called I bet again on the turn and check/fold the river UI.
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:03 AM
12AX7 12AX7 is offline
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

LOL!, I've had it work once in a while. LOL! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Last time it was "Show me a freakin' JACK PLEASE!" for a boat. LOL!

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: \"The Dreaded Ace\"?

You simply cannot fold your PP every time an A shows up. That would be bad poker. Like others have said, this is very situational dependent. But here's a general rule to go by. Put out a probe bet. Chances are, if your opponent doesn't have an A, it will scare him and he will fold. If he calls or reraises, then you know to proceed cautiously.
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