Playing Bad Players

I've been playing on Party for the last year or so playing both SNG's and Ring games. I have learned a tremendous amount about poker through constant playing, reading this forum, and reading all the great books on poker. Given that I don't have a huge bankroll to work with, I am playing mostly lower stakes such as NL $25 rings and either 5+1 or 10+1 SNG's. I have played enough to know when I cause my own destruction and when bad players suck out on me. I have had just a tremendous amount of these suck outs lately and am getting really discouraged. I also realize that these sort of players will always lose in the long run, but I guess what I'm looking for comment-wise is...

I know I can eventually overcome the bad plays of one or two bad players, but how do good players fair overall against the entire sum of bad players and all of their suck outs?

And, any additional hints/comments to get out of this discouraging slump.

Thanks for everyone's help, this is my first post! (hope it didn't get too long)

Mark

[J. Sawyer]

In the long run they win.

Get into the long run (play many many hands)

You mean in the long run, the good players will win?

[cobalt]

To be honest. I think it's harder to play against bad players online (they're cake in live poker).

Whenever I'm up against a decent/good player, they will play a certain way and you can slowly get a read on them.

Bad players play any hand that they "feel lucky with". They can get dealt 83os and "feel" it and somehow totally suckout on you with a set of runner runner 3's.

Bad players don't have tells simply because they don't know wtf they're doing in the first place. There are less and less of these players as you go up in stakes because bad players do lose in the long run, that's why they prefer micro limits. Cause they play all day on $5.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

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To be honest. I think it's harder to play against bad players online (they're cake in live poker).

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I stopped reading here. This is a common sentiment amongst new players and losing players. It demonstrates a fundemental lack of understanding of the game.

Until you understand why, you should stick to nano-limits. You will lose less that way.

[Equal]

Realize that against bad players you will win a smaller % of pots than against good players. This is simply because bad players play too many hands and go to far with them compared to better players.

Although you will win a smaller percentage of pots against bad players, this is more than made up by the fact that any pots you do win against bad players will be much larger than against good players.

So against bad players you have a seemingly contradictory situation in which you'll win less pots, but win more money.

This fact often frustrates the inexperienced player.

Thanks for that post. That was very helpful. I appreciate these type. To anybody else thinking of replying, please no negative comments in this thread.

[mattrado]

As a moderately experienced poker player, my two best pieces of advice are:

1. Don't get frustrated, everyone has downswings. You will have swings where the cards will hit for bad players over and over against you. You will lose money. It will be frustrating as hell. You MUST keep playing a solid game. If you do, you will win IN THE LONG RUN. If you don't, you will lose.

2. When you lose big pots, or multiple hands to the same player, or have a losing session, go back and re-examine your play. Make sure you're not getting frustrated and playing bad hands. Make sure you're making good decisions that if made hundreds of times, would make you the winner. You see many people on these forums posting hands and getting advice on their play. Examining your play is key.

Everyone who plays poker wins hands all the time, even the bad players (that's why they play). The best players know how to ALWAYS put themselves in situations with the highest winning potential (+EV). HOWEVER, this is all based on odds and chance, and you don't always win in the moment.

best of luck,
Matt

[cobalt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To be honest. I think it's harder to play against bad players online (they're cake in live poker).

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here. This is a common sentiment amongst new players and losing players. It demonstrates a fundemental lack of understanding of the game.

Until you understand why, you should stick to nano-limits. You will lose less that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

We probably have a different definition of what a "bad player" is.

There are differences between fish, maniacs and bad players.
Fish are bad players in a good way - meaning that they are great for taking chips from. They're new to poker and only have a basic knowledge of the game.

Maniacs are bad players in a long term good way - meaning that over time, they really lose big, and you can win big off of them.

Bad players are just bad players - they basically don't know anything, they're not maniacs/loose, they simply have no clue what their hand means and how to bet it. They are completely random. They've probably seen celebrity poker once and think they know how to play poker.

Not saying that I'm a great poker player, but there are many players out there that are totally oblivious. And they are the hardest players to play against.

[UATrewqaz]

The more idiots you have at the table the better hand it will take tow in typically. When you have like 6 people going to showdown someone will make something better than say top pair almost always.

The way to play the maximum EV value poker against a table full of morons would be to play very tight, raise preflop with powerful hands (pot equity, SSHE) and to limp in with good drawing hands (implied odds, SSHE). Throw your hand away pretty quickly if you don't make anythign on thef lop and the times you do make something (a made hand, a great draw) the pot will be big and pay you off big times. In other words you'll be winning less pots but the ones you win will be huge. They'll all be trading money back and forth because they chase every pot.