Playing Bad Players

[OrangeKing]

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Not saying that I'm a great poker player, but there are many players out there that are totally oblivious. And they are the hardest players to play against.

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This is completely wrong. It is extraordinarily easy to beat a player who is totally oblivious; in fact, it is more profitable to play against them than any other type of player. To greatly simplify it, just value bet your marginal and good hands to death, and don't bother trying to read them or bluff.

[47outs]

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but how do good players fair overall against the entire sum of bad players and all of their suck outs?


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Good players fair quite well. The more bad players, the more money they make.


outs

It hurts to get sucked out, but it happens. Those guys desperately calling with their bottom pair hoping to hit their kicker w/ much pressure are who you want in the game. The percentages will catch up to them eventually. They can't always hit when they are 3-1 dogs.

About two weeks ago, I played in a NL game where this guy played EVERY hand and was winning. He left after a few hours up $1k. When someone asked why he is playing every hand, he replied with "It's working for me." What happened this week? He dropped 1.4k.

[MicroBob]

Also - many many players who get sucked-out on from the 'bad' players fail to look at their own play and determine whether they were playing the hand ideally to begin with.
Obviously this shold be your primary concern.
Many many people assume that they play their hands 'pretty well' or 'correctly' but most actually do not.

Whether it be a hand you won...or a hand you took a bad-beat on...you might not have played it that great even though you think you did.
It is difficult to convince players of this until they post actual stats and/or hand-histories and get real feedback.


I am thinking about the recent post in the internet-forum where somebody posted that their stats were 'pretty much normal' during his bad streak and then listed a bunch of p-tracker numbers that indicated that he was quite obviously weak-tight and NOT 'pretty much normal' (VP-13).

[TheBlueMonster]

I'm gonna have to agree with Milo on this. No matter your definition of bad player, you want them in your game.

[Online247]

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To be honest. I think it's harder to play against bad players online (they're cake in live poker).

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I stopped reading here. This is a common sentiment amongst new players and losing players. It demonstrates a fundemental lack of understanding of the game.

Until you understand why, you should stick to nano-limits. You will lose less that way.

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We probably have a different definition of what a "bad player" is.

There are differences between fish, maniacs and bad players.
Fish are bad players in a good way - meaning that they are great for taking chips from. They're new to poker and only have a basic knowledge of the game.

Maniacs are bad players in a long term good way - meaning that over time, they really lose big, and you can win big off of them.

Bad players are just bad players - they basically don't know anything, they're not maniacs/loose, they simply have no clue what their hand means and how to bet it. They are completely random. They've probably seen celebrity poker once and think they know how to play poker.

Not saying that I'm a great poker player, but there are many players out there that are totally oblivious. And they are the hardest players to play against.

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Stick around long enough and you'll realize how misguided your judgement is.

[Dov]

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It hurts to get sucked out, but it happens.

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This should not be true.

It should either feel good or nothing to get sucked out on, preferably nothing, and the more the better. They can't last forever. (and don't)

I'm too tired to go into it much further now, but there are tilt threads all over the board where you can see what I mean.

Look for bankroll management too.

[[censored]]

Honestly if you are not winning online you are doing something wrong. Remember you not only have to be better than the bad players but also better than an degree that allows you to overcome the rake.

You need to keep playing and work on getting better. bottom line.

take comfort in the fact that there have been many many now winning players who felt this way when they first got started.

[MicroBob]

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This should not be true.

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I agree.
Many a night I have played against a crazy drunk or two who had zero clue what they were doing yet were still able to take my money with their runner-runner T3o 2-pair.

I do admit that it started to bother me back in January when I wasn't playing well in my attempt at 15/30 and I was sweating the money I was losing a bit.

My remedy?? To step down in limits where losing a hand or three (or five or ten) to bad players would be something I could easily not care about because I knew I was at an advantage in the long-run.

So I have recommended to some players to play at a limit where the losses don't mean as much to you...but have since come to learn that it sometimes isn't just a matter of the monetary set-back but is also just a competitive drive where one feels they deserve to win since they KNOW they are playing better than the idiot who is beating them.

If this is where you're coming from then you have to learn to take a long-term view and KNOW that playing well will get you the money in the long-run.


However, I stick to my guns on my original point as well.
Almost ALL losing players blame their opponents and bad-luck for the reason they are losing.
But after enough hands it should be obvious that the only reason for one's losses is one's own inferior play. Yet even AFTER achieving a significant number of hands most players will CONTINUE to blame anything but themselves (usually blaming bad players, unlucky cards, etc etc).

[Rascal]

Everyone has bad downswings where they are sucked out on never catch flops... Bad players are superb love em.. U need to destroy their pot odds. Make calling / drawing expensive and most of all a bad decision. When they do draw out say 'well played' encourage them to do it again. Most of all so they stay on ur table and u can get ur money back. On the other hand bad players usually give u odds to draw on them eg slowin playin their top2pair on flop to ur 4 card flush/str8 draw. Then they like to call big river bets. Learn ur odds tighten up be aggressive, try and sit to the left of them so they act first. Get a few books under ur belt eg super system.