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#1
11-24-2005, 12:48 AM
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Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
This hand occured playing 2-5 NL. The opponent in the hand is as nice and honest a guy as you'll meet, so I can almost guarantee he wasn't trying to pull any shananigans.
I go heads up to the river with the player sitting to my immediate right. He's led the action and there's apx. $130 in the pot. I make my baby flush on the river and he's first to act. With chips in his hand he thinks for a little bit. I'm watching him and the dealer says check. Hearing this I quickly grab a stack of chips and cut out a $50 bet. As my chips go in the middle, opponent says "I didn't check." I finish cutting out my bet and he says "OK, leave it out their" and than he thinks and raises another $100. I quickly call and he shows a bigger flush. I mention to him that the dealer said check, and ask how much he was going to bet. He said he was going to bet $100 and offers to give me $25 to split the additional money I lost on the river. I take it instead of making a fuss or calling the floor. If the floor comes over what would the ruling be? This was the dealers last hand, the new dealer witnessed the hand and later verified that action happened as I described it. 
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#2
11-24-2005, 01:22 AM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
Are you sure the dealer didn't say "check?" as in: "Sir, was that a check?" I see dealers do this a lot.
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#3
11-24-2005, 04:47 AM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
I guess I do not see the problem because you never folded.
If you would have checked after the dealer declared check, then I would be pissed, but you bet. He had the best hand and won while you voluntarily called his bet/raise, whatever you want to call it. You basically described a check-raise. I am wondering why the guy gave you $25. Were you gonna give him some money back if you won?
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#4
11-24-2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I do not see the problem because you never folded. [/ QUOTE ] Player A did not check. He was not planning on checking. He was going to bet $100 and Player B was going to call and just loose $100. Dealer messes up. Player B bets $50 out of turn, by Player A's own statement. Player A check-raises $100 more, which Player B calls, making it $150 total he loses on the river, $50 more than he would have lost, had the hand been played in order. Player B realizes that the dealer's error [and his shady play] made him $50 extra, and gives half of it back. opponent says "I didn't check." At this point the dealer should stop daydreaming and stop the action. If Player A did not check, Player B takes his bet out and it is up to Player A to act first. No "OK, leave it out there". I am sure Player A would have insisted on acting first if Player B had indicated he wanted to check behind.
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#5
11-24-2005, 01:32 PM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
[ QUOTE ]
I'm watching him and the dealer says check. [/ QUOTE ] if you were watching him, how did you not know he didnt check?
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#6
11-24-2005, 01:57 PM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
Argus, thanks for clarifying the situation. I note this though:
[ QUOTE ] Player A did not check. He was not planning on checking. He was going to bet $100 and Player B was going to call and just loose $100. [/ QUOTE ] Why would you want to "just lose $100"? Player B thought he had the best hand and called the psuedo check-raise. One way to look at this is that it could have saved player B $150, I am sure the floor would allow him to take back the $50 and simply fold. You are usually behind when you get check-raised, especially in a show-down. However, it is hard to lay down a flush.
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#7
11-24-2005, 02:11 PM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm watching him and the dealer says check. [/ QUOTE ] if you were watching him, how did you not know he didnt check? [/ QUOTE ] How we were sitting I couldn't completley see his right hand which was shuffiling chips. Dealer clearly said check, so I took that as the dealer saw or heard something I didn't.
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#8
11-24-2005, 02:23 PM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm watching him and the dealer says check. [/ QUOTE ] if you were watching him, how did you not know he didnt check? [/ QUOTE ] How we were sitting I couldn't completley see his right hand which was shuffiling chips. Dealer clearly said check, so I took that as the dealer saw or heard something I didn't. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe he did see something. Its not all that unusual for a guy shuffling chips to make a tapping motion that can be construed by the dealer as a check. Since you didn't see maybe it was a player mistake and not a dealer mistake.
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#9
11-24-2005, 03:24 PM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe he did see something. Its not all that unusual for a guy shuffling chips to make a tapping motion that can be construed by the dealer as a check. Since you didn't see maybe it was a player mistake and not a dealer mistake. [/ QUOTE ] Something else that can happen is the dealer sees a checking motion, announces the check and puts it out of their mind. Floor is called because the player says he didn't check and the dealer doesn't remember what checking motion he saw (he sees a lot of these over the course of a shift and has no real reason to remember THIS one), so the player that DID check gets to bet. As a player I don't know a good way to protect yourself against this angle shot when you don't have an unobstructed view, but if it ever happens a second time with a player I would make a point of finding out what he is doing.
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#10
11-24-2005, 05:39 PM
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Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Maybe he did see something. Its not all that unusual for a guy shuffling chips to make a tapping motion that can be construed by the dealer as a check. Since you didn't see maybe it was a player mistake and not a dealer mistake. [/ QUOTE ] Something else that can happen is the dealer sees a checking motion, announces the check and puts it out of their mind. Floor is called because the player says he didn't check and the dealer doesn't remember what checking motion he saw (he sees a lot of these over the course of a shift and has no real reason to remember THIS one), so the player that DID check gets to bet. As a player I don't know a good way to protect yourself against this angle shot when you don't have an unobstructed view, but if it ever happens a second time with a player I would make a point of finding out what he is doing. [/ QUOTE ] One thing I would like to see is for poker rooms to require clear hand signals at the table, they way they do at a blackjack table. requiring a player to bring his hand out towards the center and tap the table would go along way to avoiding many misunderstandings (an angle shots).
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