Evidence AGAINST Christianity

[purnell]

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Yeah, you just overthrew 5000 years of Judaism and Christianity. Nobody ever thought of this before.

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Interesting choice, "overthrew". I think we may be getting to the bottom of this.

[RJT]

You got banned? Must have been your "warm and fuzzy" comments. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Jernau]

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Where does it say only?

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In the English language when you are talking about a specific number of objects, unless you explicitly state otherwise, you mean only that number. For example, if I were to tell you that I wanted you to take two cats into your car, I hope you would understand that I don't want you to take one, or three, or ten cats - only two.

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Why is that an override?

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I feel like I'm teaching you basic English here. When you give someone an instruction and then give 'additional information' that renders the original instruction invalid you have overridden it. For example, if I were to tell you that I wanted you to take two cats into your car, but later I said I actually wanted you to take seven white cats and two black cats, the new instruction has overridden the original instruction.

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They went in in pairs. What a mystery.

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It certainly is a mystery how seven beasts can go in pairs. This is why that site you quoted had to conjure up the 'spare wheel' beast. Sarcasm and hand waving is not helping you demonstrate how this isn't a contradiction.

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Yeah, you just overthrew 5000 years of Judaism and Christianity. Nobody ever thought of this before.

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I'm not claiming originality here, many people have thought of this before.

[NotReady]

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Genesis 6:19 "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."
Very specific about there only being two of 'every living thing'.

In the English language when you are talking about a specific number of objects, unless you explicitly state otherwise, you mean only that number. For example, if I were to tell you that I wanted you to take two cats into your car, I hope you would understand that I don't want you to take one, or three, or ten cats - only two.


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You see the word only there because you want to, not because it's there. The pupose for bringing two is given in the verse - to keep them alive.

Just in passing, in case you weren't aware, the Bible wasn't written in English. And yes, that does matter. If you don't take the time to understand something about the Hebrew language you're going to come with any number of errors and contradictions that are just idiomatic Hebrew. I can't wait.

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and th en give 'additional information' that renders the original instruction invalid


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This begs the question. Why did it render it invalid. I feel like I'm teaching basic Hebrew here.

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It certainly is a mystery how seven beasts can go in pairs.


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Genesis 7:2 "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."

Seven pairs of beast. Two by two. Get it now?

[txag007]

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I would suggest that it is very difficult to have a worthwhile discussion with someone who truly believes that these intellectually dishonest maneuverings are valid rebuttals to the obvious mistakes and contradictions in the Bible.

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What you call "intellectually dishonest maneuverings" often involve researching the original Hebrew and Greek, comparing what is found with common literary techniques of time period in which the text in question was composed in order to come to the most accurate understanding possible. What is, in fact, intellectually dishonest is to lump everything into one inaccurate representation and present it to the readers of this forum as fact.

[hmkpoker]

Wow, debating Noah's ark?

ok, here's my argument. *ahem*

You.

Can't.

Fit.

Every.

Species.

On.

One.

[censored].

BOAT!!!!

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Wow, debating Noah's ark?

ok, here's my argument. *ahem*

You.

Can't.

Fit.

Every.

Species.

On.

One.

[censored].

BOAT!!!!

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Q.E.D.

[Jernau]

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You see the word only there because you want to, not because it's there. The pupose for bringing two is given in the verse - to keep them alive.

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We were not discussing the purpose for bringing two, we were discussing that the wording of the verse makes it clear that only two of each beast are to be brought. My point stands even without the word only there so we can drop this irrelevant side issue, which I am obviously not explaining well.

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If you don't take the time to understand something about the Hebrew language you're going to come with any number of errors and contradictions that are just idiomatic Hebrew.

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I agree that human errors will occur during translation. I didn't realise you shared my view there are 'any number of errors and contradictions' in the English version of the Bible.

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This begs the question. Why did it render it invalid.

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So now you're happy with the concept that a new instruction can override an original? But you want me to explain how this is analogous to rendering it invalid? I'm sorry, but I'm growing a little tired of giving English lessons, please refer to a dictionary if you seriously don't understand this concept.

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I feel like I'm teaching basic Hebrew here.

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You've lost me with this.

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Seven pairs of beast. Two by two. Get it now?

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The 'harmonization' website txag007 linked to disagrees with you Tektonics:

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Were there seven of each clean beast, or two? The answer is, seven. The phrase "two by two" in 7:9 simply means the animals entered the ark in pairs. So the beasts with 7 representatives came in as 3 pairs and 1 oddball each, paired off male and female and one spare wheel.

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Have the 'harmonization' experts got it wrong?

[txag007]

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Wow, debating Noah's ark?

ok, here's my argument. *ahem*

You.

Can't.

Fit.

Every.

Species.

On.

One.

[censored].

BOAT!!!!

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http://www.answersingenesis.org/home.../arksize13.asp

[Jernau]

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What you call "intellectually dishonest maneuverings" often involve researching the original Hebrew and Greek, comparing what is found with common literary techniques of time period in which the text in question was composed in order to come to the most accurate understanding possible.

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Unfortunately it is possible to use common research techniques and still arrive at spurious conclusions through poor reasoning.

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What is, in fact, intellectually dishonest is to lump everything into one inaccurate representation and present it to the readers of this forum as fact.

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I will admit that I may have oversimplified their technique in the interests of making a point, and to keep my post from becoming an essay. I apologize if you feel I misrepresented them.