party 15/30 river line

MrMonkey · #1 08-13-2005, 04:23 AM

Any opinions on how I should play this river?

15/30 party poker, semi-loose, semi-aggressive table
UTG+2 is a little loose and pretty aggressive, not much on other players in hand.

Party Poker (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, BB calls, Hero calls

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

OOPS! UTG+2 is pretty aggressive, I thought a flop cr sucking everybody in would work. Knowing 15/30 on party I was shocked nobody bet.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, BB folds, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)

D'oh! I'm especially scared of hearts since there was no flop bet. Not sure what to do here, possibly can get several calls by betting but there is a good chance I let somebody pick up a flush draw on the turn in a 6-way pot.
Check or bet? If I bet and get raised I assume I have to call?

smurfitup · #2 08-13-2005, 05:55 AM

checking the river is incredbily weak... i bet the river, and if raised, i 3-bet it.. YOU HAVE A SET! if the backdoor flush got there, good for him... you have a big hand, and there's no shame in putting in a third bet in that spot.. if you lost to some nasty runner-runner, so be it.

Leaky Eye · #3 08-13-2005, 06:13 AM

Bet and call raises.

Equal · #4 08-13-2005, 08:06 AM

Yeah I hear you. I just don't see how out of three opponents, two of whom called the turn bet and raise, no one can have the flush. I like just check-calling the river. If you bet and get raised you have basically trapped yourself into a crying call because no one showed any strength on earlier streets -- someone could think his two-pair is good enough to raise for example.

Jozepha · #5 08-13-2005, 11:03 AM

The flop check is standard. And I bet the river.

MarkSummers · #6 08-13-2005, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The flop check is standard. And I bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? There are all low cards on the flop. Even though there are many players in, the aggressive player may check AK or AQ against 6 players. The others just called so a bet from any of them is unlikely as well.

If UTG+2 bets and you get some callers, you get a nice check-raise in. However, it seems too risky to me. If there were only 3 or 4 players to the flop, a bet with anything AK or AQ would seem standard for the aggressive player and then check-raising would be good. with this many players, even an aggressive player is going to realize they cant win this pot on a bet with overcards.

If the preflop raiser has AK or AQ or something else that's not a high pair, he may not bet. If he has a high pair, AA-TT, he is going to raise your bet.

The pot is big. Bet.

MrMonkey · #7 08-13-2005, 09:57 PM

I think that most people familiar with the 15/30 game on party would agree with me that even if utg+2 doesn't bet, I can expect this flop to bet at least 90% of the time.

Also, I understand why betting the river make sense, but I don't see how some of you can say that a backdoor flush is unlikely. With no flop bet in we have 6 players who saw the turn for just the 2-bets preflop and 3 of them (other than me) who were willing to put in 2-bets on the turn. It looks to me like I'm gonna be up against a flush a pretty reasonable % of the time here.

joedot · #8 08-13-2005, 11:34 PM

Bet, hoping you get raised and get to 3 bet. Even if you don't get raised, at least you take control of the hand and insure that no bets get missed, which they did the way you played it. If the guy has AK he may raise you on the flop to isolate and get rid of the other callers. If you take the aggressive stance here, you will also likely be raised on the turn if the ace or king shows up. I think trying to checkraise here is a mistake, and is the reason you got to the river and didn't know what to do. If your question is what to do on the river the way you played it, bet and call a raise.

TheBusiness · #9 08-14-2005, 01:22 AM

With so many people in the pot, you should probably have just led at the flop, and start to build a monster pot. You don't mind if the backdoor straight and flush draws fold to your flop bet. The initial preflop raiser probably won't let go of his hand for one bet on the flop, and in the party 15 game I am sure plenty of others will also be happy to put a bet in on the flop. I would just take the lead the whole way in a pot like this, where you figure to get several callers anyway. If you get raised on the flop or turn, great, put some more bets in. Or if you get raised on the flop, just call and then go for the turn checkraise. Letting the flop get checked through is pretty bad with so many players getting a free look at the turn. River I might bet and just call a raise, or even check call.

ihardlyknowher · #10 08-14-2005, 02:08 AM

I like the idea of leading the flop. The pot is already big. I like a bet/call on the river.

For those who say 3-bet the river, please share what you are smoking, it is awfully dry down here (or please sit at my table). [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]