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  #1  
Old 09-16-2004, 12:28 PM
parappa parappa is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 441
Default A couple of ace/rag hands.

These were played by the same (good) player appx. 10 hands apart. I'm a bit perplexed by them and wonder if we could discuss them a bit. I think these are good examples of how roughly similar hands can be very different based on game conditions, but I can't entirely explain the play in these terms. The only other thing I can add is that big stack is fairly LAG.

FWIW, these are from a party $50+5. Would the play be different at lower buy-ins?



1.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed)

Button (t2520)
SB (t3270)
BB (t1605)
Hero (t2605)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t2605 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: t3055

2.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (3 handed)

SB (t5790)
BB (t1605)
Hero (t2605)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero folds, <font color="CC3333">SB raises to t5790 (All-In)</font>, BB calls t1305 (All-In).

Flop: (t7395) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t7395) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t7395) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t7395
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2004, 12:41 PM
CrisBrown CrisBrown is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,493
Default Re: A couple of ace/rag hands.

Hi parappa,

I don't especially like the first hand. Yes, if he's going to raise, he needs to push (One-Third Rule). And this is a bubble play, taking advantage of other players' reluctance to get busted one spot out of the money. But I think it's a low $EV bubble play. He gains very little if he wins the pot (just the blinds), and he's in a small-favorite-or-big-dog situation, exactly the kind you want to avoid.

The second hand is an easy fold. The big stack is loose-aggressive, the small stack is facing elimination, and he has third place money guaranteed. The small stack will have to play a pot soon, and Ace-rag isn't the hand Hero wants to see a showdown with.

Cris
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2004, 12:48 PM
parappa parappa is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 441
Default Re: A couple of ace/rag hands.

Thanks. I don't like the first hand either, but I wanted to post it because I knew it was a good player but was sure I'd fold there. I'm assuming there was a game context that I was missing, or maybe it was just a loose play.

Second hand does seem an easy fold.
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2004, 02:22 PM
La Brujita La Brujita is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 517
Default Re: A couple of ace/rag hands.


Hand 1.

Just depends on folding equity. I don't think it is a bad play at all. I do it somewhat frequently not all the time but not never either. Fossilman once made a post explaining (paraphrasing-all mistakes are mine) it is better if you have the choice to raise with (i) a real hand (ii) a hand like 10-9 suited that plays well against A-x then (ii) a hand like A-4. The problem is the blinds are so big you have to be a little less picky and four handed a hand like A-4 rates to be good a decent amount of the time, also you might get hands like A-8 to A-5 to fold.

Talking about winning "only" the blinds is a bit incorrect when the blind money is 18% of the average stack size. Winning the blinds is huge.

Hand 2. Once you are in third most of your equity derives from getting firsts and taking a few thirds as a consequence. Also you don't have that many more chips than the short stack.

My personal preference is to push here but you could also raise about 2.5x bb and fold to a reraise (depending on what your standard raise has been in the past).

Just my two cents.
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