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  #1  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:36 PM
johnnybeef johnnybeef is offline
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Default The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

Ok, so in the last two weeks I have played more 22s and 33s then perhaps anyone on the planet. This has been by far my longest stint at the 33s as I previously moved from the 22s to the 55s before I spent all of my bankroll on naughty things.

Essentially the 22s are a cinch to double up early. In a typical 22 I will double up with a big pair early, wait for people to bust out and usually be at average on the bubble. Once at the bubble, I will usually have about 10ish bb since the 22 bubbles usually start at around level 5 or 6. As such, I am usually not as agressive. I tend to make raises of 2.5 bb instead of pushes as I hate shoving 10 bb into a pot when there are so many monkeys that will bust out with terrible holdings. Once I am hu at the 22s, it is common for both opponents to be above 10 bb. As such, I usually like to limp a few hands, to see how my opponent will react to that.

At the 33s, the players are generally tighter as there are a few more pros (ok lets face it, Ilya and I may have been the only pros at the 22s this month.) That said there are definately donks there (as there are everywhere, but everything is relative.) 33s donks are slightly better than 22s donks. By this, I mean that they are usually more difficult to stack early. They still make horri-awful calls late, but generally, I find that they hold on to chips a little bit better. The key difference between the 22s and 33s lies in the fact that the 33s usually last longer. You need to pick up a few pots here and there in the mid game to get above t1000 or so until the average stack is less than 10 bb (the ability to recognize who is on a steal is perhaps the most valuable skill for a blossoming 33er.) 33s bubbles usually start at about level 7 which means that the average stack is about 6-7 bb. As such, proper pushbot strategy is necesarry in order to beat the 33s for a decent earn. One of the biggest leaks of good players on the bubble at the 33s imo is impatience. I see far too many good players pushing junk utg when they are short. For example, at t1100 with the blinds at 150/300 utg, I will frequently see players shove any two. This is a huge mistake as you will have 650 left after you clear the blinds (if you don't pick up anything playable in the blinds.) For those of you who think that 650 isnt much, double it and add 450. This will give you a stack of 1750 which is slightly below average (and if you can win a 3 way pot, even better.) ITM and HU at the 33s are pretty much straight forward pushbotting.

I really have only played 30 or so 55s this month (I played 2500 or so this summer), so I won't go into too much detail about them, but the competition is similar to the 33s. The obvious difference though is the extra t200 that everyone starts out with. This is a huge advantage for a good player as it enables you to out maneuver bad players postflop early, and it enables you to be slightly more patient. Also, since the stacks are deeper, the bubbles at the 55s usually play similar to the 22s as the blinds usually don't get huge in comparison to the stack sizes (at least not as often as it would at the 33s.)

I hope this post will clear up some of the how are the 22s/33s/55s different type posts. I would have addressed the 11s except I haven't played any in almost 8 months.
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:40 PM
fluorescenthippo fluorescenthippo is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

[ QUOTE ]
33s donks are slightly better than 22s donks.

[/ QUOTE ]

this made me laugh
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:47 PM
johnnybeef johnnybeef is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
33s donks are slightly better than 22s donks.

[/ QUOTE ]

this made me laugh

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps I should have said that there are less of them
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:47 PM
splashpot splashpot is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

[ QUOTE ]
I see far too many good players pushing junk utg when they are short. For example, at t1100 with the blinds at 150/300 utg, I will frequently see players shove any two. This is a huge mistake

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. I see that a lot on this forum too. Otherwise great players would rather push junk UTG than let the blinds go through them. fwiw, I HATE pushing junk UTG.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:54 PM
Snarf Snarf is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see far too many good players pushing junk utg when they are short. For example, at t1100 with the blinds at 150/300 utg, I will frequently see players shove any two. This is a huge mistake

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. I see that a lot on this forum too. Otherwise great players would rather push junk UTG than let the blinds go through them. fwiw, I HATE pushing junk UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably one of the biggest adjustments I've made since coming to 2+2. I realized letting the blinds hit you ISNT the end of the world.
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:58 PM
The Yugoslavian The Yugoslavian is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

beefy,

I must have missed the 'what comprises a definitive post' memo....b/c while this may be helpful and I like seeing you put your thoughts down....it's far from definitive. Plus, it's mainly regurgitation from what Irieguy has thought about in the past (many months ago) and doesn't even include what IMO are the biggest insights/differences.

Yugoslav
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2005, 08:01 PM
Bill Poker Bill Poker is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

mind posting the link?
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2005, 08:05 PM
johnnybeef johnnybeef is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

[ QUOTE ]
beefy,

I must have missed the 'what comprises a definitive post' memo....b/c while this may be helpful and I like seeing you put your thoughts down....it's far from definitive. Plus, it's mainly regurgitation from what Irieguy has thought about in the past (many months ago) and doesn't even include what IMO are the biggest insights/differences.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, its definitive because I am an ego maniac. Also, Irie didn't hint upon the differences in play. Rather, he talks about win rates etc.

edit: This isn't regurgitation at all, these are my own thoughts. If they coincide with Irie's post, then I guess I am finally doing something right.
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2005, 08:06 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

A cinch to double up early? Lol, thats funny...its not that easy to get big pairs early. To say that in a typical 22 that you will double up early is just BS. I played enough to know that most of the time you WON'T double up early.
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2005, 08:06 PM
ilya ilya is offline
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Default Re: The definitive post on 22s v 33s (with some comments on 55s)

[ QUOTE ]
For example, at t1100 with the blinds at 150/300 utg, I will frequently see players shove any two. This is a huge mistake as you will have 650 left after you clear the blinds (if you don't pick up anything playable in the blinds.)

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're talking about 4-6 handed sorts of situations, I really disagree with you. I guess 7+ handed I can see folding trash.
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