an aspiring stockbroker

[FishHooks]

i believe a 27 is about the same as a 1150 on the SAT, could be wrong, but I believe it's in that range.

[runner4life7]

Sorry to hijack but I'm in a similar position but a few years later down. I started as a nuclear engineer and am now switching to econ with a math based option to use all the math Ive taken.

Two questions I guess
My grades were not good in eng. If I do a ton better in econ from here on out and do steller on the GMAT(35 on ACT, I can do very well on pointless standarized tests to hopefully make up for the GPA) is it possible to still get into a top Business school.

Is going to a top business school where I should go from here to be a trader/investor, someone that works with the #s?

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to hijack but I'm in a similar position but a few years later down. I started as a nuclear engineer and am now switching to econ with a math based option to use all the math Ive taken.

Two questions I guess
My grades were not good in eng. If I do a ton better in econ from here on out and do steller on the GMAT(35 on ACT, I can do very well on pointless standarized tests to hopefully make up for the GPA) is it possible to still get into a top Business school.

Is going to a top business school where I should go from here to be a trader/investor, someone that works with the #s?

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I don't know anything about investment banking, so that I can't answer. I know a lot of people who are derivatives traders. None of them went to business school. Only a small portion majored in finance or econ. I don't think grades are particularly important, although that could be different if you are graduating from a school without an amazing reputation. I also destroyed the ACTs (36/36/36/35) but never did me a bit of good at any point in my life.
If you are smart and good with numbers, I think an advanced degree in Mathematical Finance or Financial Engineering much better than going to business school.

[mrbaseball]

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true.....finance or econ classes aint gonna teach you to sell or hold if there is a panic sell off or why TAYD takes off when there is a 9.0 earthquake in tokyo


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Heh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Nothing will except experience and that often fails in a panic situation as well.

Trading just isn't taught. Being a brilliant well educated individual does not insure trading success. And several very successful traders have very little book learning.

Trading is more of an art than a science. That's not to say that certain areas of trading don't involve a great deal of mathematical expertise as some areas are purely mathematical. In my career I have done a lot of arbitrage type trading as well as trade research which were both very math intensive. And options type trading is more math intesive than straight futures market making. But your typical floor traders (and nowadays screen traders) rely mainly on experience and an inate ability which isn't the part of any curiculim.

There are lots of different traders. Being a bond options trader is way different than being a bond trader. NY equities are different from Houston energy traders by a wide margin and some guy banging out scalps in his basement on tradestation is a lot different from the spread scalping I do and a bean crush or crude crack spreader is way different from typical bean and crude traders. There are lots of different opportunities called "traders" but while similar many of them are very different from each other.

[Officer Farva]

In terms of majors, theres two ways of going about things.
1) Shoot for a high GPA.
2) Shoot for a quantitative major.

Of course the third option is to do what is most interesting and rewarding. Advise your son to try a lot of different coursework in his first couple of years, and do what seems most interesting. I know plenty of English major brokers, and plenty of math major low lifes.

That all said, if your son really just sees the world in green, tell him to sac up and do the most quant major possible.

[lastsamurai]

The best advice for him to get into the financial industry is to major in finance... get your mba/cfa... and kiss alot of ass...

about 95% of being a stock broker is opening accounts and making trades for your clients... If he wants to be a successful stock broker i would have him enroll in a snobby school like USC...have him join a fraternity...party every night for 7 years and by the time he graduates he should have enough names and number to open up a pretty nice clientel list.

When i was working at my firm in NYC half the brokers barely graduated from high school...

[Paluka]

Does your son want to be a stock broker or does he want to be a trader? Does he know the difference?

[howzit]

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Does your son want to be a stock broker or does he want to be a trader? Does he know the difference?

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this is to the point. . .fwiw, I'm not a trader, I work for them on a trading desk.

The traders here all are very, very good at math and quantitative analysis. Traders interpret external events, market movements, trends, etc., to decide which positions they should be putting on to make money. They also have to decide how much risk they are willing to put on a position. They don't need social skills, management skills, and not too much macro econ knowledge (the caveat being is if he will be a macro trader) For the most part, the traders I've dealt with don't care about their position in a company and job title. They mostly care about how much $ they are given to trade, and how much risk they are allowed by the desk and how much money they will be keeping in a positive year.



Brokers are order takers and create a market for the traders. These guys have to make sure that the trader's orders are executed at or very close to the market. They sit around and take trade orders from a fund/bank/client and execute in the market. They can make judgment calls on the market and voice their opinion but they do not make the final decision.

You can make an analogy that traders are chefs. Brokers are the markets where the chef can get his ingredients.


I assume your son wants to trade cuz a lot of inexperienced people enterting finance want to trade. (i was one of them) For him to get a job out of school, he'll have to have strong math skills and some sort of experience in finance (internships). Having a college pedigree helps tremendously.

[howzit]

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i think he wants to be self employed. pretty much buying and selling stocks himself.
thanks

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this is near impossible w/out years of positive track records. All the billion dollar fundmanagers started at a shop, which doesn't need to be a name brand employer (Tudor, Soros, SAC, or any big wall st bank). Anyway, they worked their way to hte top of the ladder and then got their own books w/plenty of leverage or they started their own funds bringing along the client's money who made money w/him over the years.

At the earliest, he'll be in his late twenties and that's for hte superstars. He won't be able to get seed money otherwise and unless he starts w/a decent nut, his position size and risk will be pathetically small.

salary-wise, that depends on his skill and luck. mid to high five figures straight of college with him getting around a few perecentage points of his profits. if he becomes a a winning trader, the sky is the limit. Guaranteed 7 figures w/bonuses roughly around 10-15% on millions of dollars.

you are wrong sir....