betholdem sucks at accounting...

[Pokeraddict]

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I'm sure you can withdraw. They do charge for more than one withdrawl in a 30 day period. This is all spelled out in the T&C.

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there becasue they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

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respond again when you can read.

rj

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So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there because they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

You are missing this point in bold.

[Randy_Refeld]

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I'm sure you can withdraw. They do charge for more than one withdrawl in a 30 day period. This is all spelled out in the T&C.

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there becasue they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

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respond again when you can read.

rj

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I'm not the one that either couldn't read the T&C or decided to try to just steal from them.

edit to add from the T&C
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Withdrawal of any amount made within 30 days of initial deposit will result in bonus monies being forfeited

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SO what was your compalint again?

[Muisyle]

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I'm sure you can withdraw. They do charge for more than one withdrawl in a 30 day period. This is all spelled out in the T&C.

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there becasue they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

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respond again when you can read.

rj

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I'm not the one that either couldn't read the T&C or decided to try to just steal from them.

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What I gather from the OP:

He deposits $500. Bankroll $500.

He is given $120 bonus. Bankroll $620.

He bets the bonus and loses it. Bankroll $500 (all HIS money)

He plays poker and loses some. Bankroll $401 (HIS money).

He attempts to withdraw. Withdrawal $281 (Site takes $120 bonus out of HIS money).

I would be pretty pissed too.

Imagine this. He puts in $500. They DON'T give him a bonus. He loses the money playing poker and has $401. He withdraws $401. Why the [censored] does he lose $120 of his own money because they gave him a bonus?

I'm sure it says somewhere in the T&C "user always wagers own money before bonus money" or some other yada, which is just cheap, but then contemplate this. He deposits $500, gets $120 bonus. He withdraws $500. He's not withdrawing any bonus so this shouldn't be a problem. He bets the bonus and loses it. Are they going to call him up and say "uh, you owe us $120, please redeposit"? Because that's the scenario here.

Edit: I see now that they gave him back the $120 they took out after emails and phonecalls. My point still stands though unless this is a one time software error and not policy.

[jmillerdls]

he can't bet the bonus. He can bet his money until he clears the bonus. If he doesn't complete the wager requirement, then he doesn't get the bonus. So, he wagered his money, lost, and doesn't get any bonus money to cover those losses.

[Randy_Refeld]

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He bets the bonus and loses it. Bankroll $500 (all HIS money)

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If he didn't want to try to clear the bonus he could have asked them to remove it. WHenyou accept the bonus money and bet with it you have to clear the bonus before you can withdraw. It is a bonus not a free roll.

Also he is suppsoed to lose the bonus for withdrawing any money in the first 30 days. They waived clearing it and waived forfiture and he is complaining? And you'd be pissed to?

If you think you get free money too slow don't it. DO you expect a monthly fee to not be pissed? If I wanted to give you some free money what terms would you require to not be pissed? DO they need to come to your house in person to take free money??

[Muisyle]

The point is the house doesn't lose ANY money by giving out this bonus. This is not like taking the bonus and losing it to another PLAYER where the house doesn't get it back. The lost sportsbook bonus goes directly to the houe. If he bets the bounus and loses it (TO THEM) they come out at zero. If he bets the bonus and wins, they can take the $120 out of his account when he tries to withdraw (unless he clears it).

How can you say they should PROFIT off giving someone a bonus? He already lost the bonus back to them, then they are taking an ADDITIONAL $120 from him, they already got their bonus back! Net $120 to the casino!

It's not like I'm asking them to just give out free money. This bonus should be a zero sum game (minus vig, and unless he clears it). And it's not like they aren't getting anything out of giving out bonuses, they are doing it to attract players.

[PITTM]

nothing like making insanely irrelevant analogies to make your point.

rj

[Randy_Refeld]

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The point is the house doesn't lose ANY money by giving out this bonus. This is not like taking the bonus and losing it to another PLAYER where the house doesn't get it back. The lost sportsbook bonus goes directly to the houe. If he bets the bounus and loses it (TO THEM) they come out at zero. If he bets the bonus and wins, they can take the $120 out of his account when he tries to withdraw (unless he clears it).

How can you say they should PROFIT off giving someone a bonus? He already lost the bonus back to them, then they are taking an ADDITIONAL $120 from him, they already got their bonus back! Net $120 to the casino!

It's not like I'm asking them to just give out free money. This bonus should be a zero sum game (minus vig, and unless he clears it). And it's not like they aren't getting anything out of giving out bonuses, they are doing it to attract players.

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If they allowed everyone a free bet they wouldn't be able to afford to give bonuses to their actual customers. These have to be restrictive because there are so many bums on the net. In this case they agreed to give him $120 he hand't earned. WHy would someone play a bonus and then complain about the terms if you don't like the terms or are too lazy to read them don't play. Online casinos exist to make a profit not to give money away to bums. If you dont' like how they give free money tell them you don't want it that you prefer to just play yopur own money.

[Bascule]

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What I gather from the OP:

He deposits $500. Bankroll $500.

He is given $120 bonus. Bankroll $620.

He bets the bonus and loses it. Bankroll $500 (all HIS money)

He plays poker and loses some. Bankroll $401 (HIS money).

He attempts to withdraw. Withdrawal $281 (Site takes $120 bonus out of HIS money).

I would be pretty pissed too.

Imagine this. He puts in $500. They DON'T give him a bonus. He loses the money playing poker and has $401. He withdraws $401. Why the [censored] does he lose $120 of his own money because they gave him a bonus?

I'm sure it says somewhere in the T&C "user always wagers own money before bonus money" or some other yada, which is just cheap, but then contemplate this. He deposits $500, gets $120 bonus. He withdraws $500. He's not withdrawing any bonus so this shouldn't be a problem. He bets the bonus and loses it. Are they going to call him up and say "uh, you owe us $120, please redeposit"? Because that's the scenario here.

Edit: I see now that they gave him back the $120 they took out after emails and phonecalls. My point still stands though unless this is a one time software error and not policy.

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Some crypto sites do this as well (Will Hill and Littlewoods IIRC), except the "bonus" is for wagering in their online casinos. If you withdraw your poker bankroll, you can wager the bonus money (with restrictions on cashouts if you win), but if you try and use the casino with real money in your account it will take that off you first, leaving the useless bonus money. (The bonus money cannot be earned by playing poker, only by playing casino games. I forget the wagering requirement but I expect that the -EV of the wagers conveniently equals the size of the bonus).

Infuriatingly, the bonus money appears in the poker account balance, and has frequently confused me as to my true account balance. I've emptied my littlewoods account of real money, and periodically the cheeky fuckers mail me and tell me that there's money left in my account, because I'm ignoring the unwanted, and unasked for, casino bonuses.

I feel that this practise is an immoral scam. I'm glad you didn't give up on it and got your money back PITTM.

[itsmarty]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
The point is the house doesn't lose ANY money by giving out this bonus.

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He had a chance to win his sportsbook bet for $120. If betholdem were to let everyone wager their bonus and just walk away if they lose, they would shortly be out of business.

The fact that he lost his wager to the house doesn't matter. By placing a wager with the bonus money he incurred an obligation to either wager his (deposit + bonus) x 5 or cash out for his remaining funds - $120. This was clear in the T&amp;C of the site and is very much a standard form of casino bonus.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
How can you say they should PROFIT off giving someone a bonus? He already lost the bonus back to them, then they are taking an ADDITIONAL $120 from him, they already got their bonus back! Net $120 to the casino!

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That's exactly why they give you the bonus. They expect to profit from it or break even, either because you lose the money and have to pay it back from your deposit or because you roll it over enough times that you pay more than $120 in juice.

The OP should have been overjoyed at the prospect of getting his full funds back in 30 days. Whatever problems betholdem may have (and I know nothing about them beyond what I've read in this thread), in this case they went above and beyond for someone who is apparently a massive tool.

Martin