Betting Strategy

[Delanger]

Hi,

I am trying to get into using a tight agressive strategy (for NoLimit Holdem) Online and also in my regular home game and I have a number of questions I hope people can help me with.

1) In my home game, when I started betting big, I got a lot of 'attitude' from people. It was all in good spirits but they were not happy and made comments about taking the fun out of the game and taking it all too seriusly. What's the best response to that? I obviously want to win and while I was playing TA I was winning but I became less Tight and less agressive (and lost!!)

2) How big should a bet be to be a good sized bet in TA play? I was generally raising to 4xBig Blind. Sometimes if my hand didn't greatly improve and there were still too many in the hand I would go bigger. Anyone have any other suggestions?

3) As my chipstack went down I began to lose the agression as any large bet would cripple me. The blinds were also getting larger and they would have eaten at my stack also. What is the best strategy at this point?

Thanks,

Liam.

[faytlnd]

1)This situation seems easy to me. You are playing totally within the rules, and playing a solid strategy. If they can't handle it, its their problem. It might be for "fun", but the point is also to win, so you play the strategy that gives you the best chance to win. Its like going out and playing a game of golf for fun against friends. Just because its for fun doesn't mean you intentionally use the wrong club, or purposefully make poor shots. They are just pissed they aren't winning. Tell them to get over it, or find a new game.

2)4x big blind generally seems like a good strategy. If you are getting a lot of callers, you might try to go 4x plus 1BB for each limper. Also, if your hand doesn't improve, and the board is dangerous with a lot of players in, a check may be in order. Otherwise, you are in effect bluffing at most pots. Might work for awhile, but someone is going to catch you, and it won't be pretty.

3)Are you confusing TA with LA? If you are playing tight aggressive, and you get a great starting hand, then you need to make a strong play, no matter what (unless of course you have strong reason to believe you are beat eg QQ vs AA). If you are playing TA, the EV of the hands you play should make them worth the large bet. If you are worried about the size of your stack vs the size of the aggressive bet, then your hand selection may be a bit too loose.

Finally, the amount in your chipstack doesn't much matter...its the number of BB you have left. As a TA, anytime your stack gets below the 10 BB mark (may be a little higher or lower, anywhere from like 7-12), you should be pushing all in preflop or fold preflop. When your stack is that low, its do or die time.

One more thing: Tiocfaidh ár lá

[Delanger]

[ QUOTE ]


3)Are you confusing TA with LA? If you are playing tight aggressive, and you get a great starting hand, then you need to make a strong play, no matter what (unless of course you have strong reason to believe you are beat eg QQ vs AA). If you are playing TA, the EV of the hands you play should make them worth the large bet. If you are worried about the size of your stack vs the size of the aggressive bet, then your hand selection may be a bit too loose.

Finally, the amount in your chipstack doesn't much matter...its the number of BB you have left. As a TA, anytime your stack gets below the 10 BB mark (may be a little higher or lower, anywhere from like 7-12), you should be pushing all in preflop or fold preflop. When your stack is that low, its do or die time.



[/ QUOTE ]

I am trying a TA but I do tend to become looser as the number of players drops. Is that wrong?

I had never looked at it with that 10xBB idea before. That is probably something I need to focus on too. My worry is that the 10xBB becomes 3-4xBB before I get a good hand and I will get called by too many players because it is now not very agressive and may appear weak and a result of desperation due to low chips stack!!

[faytlnd]

Ah, well late in the game is a different story. No, it is not wrong to play more hands later in the game when there are less players. However, this is the time too where you are going to need to start stealing some blinds. Ifyou are not trying that, then it might explain your problems. If you listen to what any of the pros say, they will mak it clear that there is not way to win a toruney without stealing the blind occasionally. Also, you should not be afraid to mak the big bets on ragged flops. If you havetwo overcards (especially something like AT, KT, etc) and the flop is 2 6 9 rainbow, and you are in later position, you should not be afraid to bet big if no makes a big bet in front of you. Most of the time you aregoing to take the pot without it going further. At worst, you are in a race, and you are going to need to win a few of those if you aregoing to win a larger tournament.

Also, I see the point of worrying that the stack will get down to low waiting for a hand to push all in on. But with few players (like 4 or less), the hands you push on can become looser as well. Any ace, KQ, QJ, any wired pair...all of these can become possible hands to push on even though you might never think of doing something like. that early in the game

[smoore]

look at the thread "more help" for my basic advice in your situation (I'm not tight though).

[ QUOTE ]
In my home game, when I started betting big, I got a lot of 'attitude' from people. It was all in good spirits but they were not happy and made comments about taking the fun out of the game and taking it all too seriusly.

[/ QUOTE ]

My response to this: "But... betting IS fun! I like to gamb00000l!"

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
1) In my home game, when I started betting big, I got a lot of 'attitude' from people. It was all in good spirits but they were not happy and made comments about taking the fun out of the game and taking it all too seriusly. What's the best response to that? I obviously want to win and while I was playing TA I was winning but I became less Tight and less agressive (and lost!!)

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is YOUR home game, AND there's money involved, I don't see the problem here. There is no such thing as "friendly" poker, especially when money is involved. I'd explain to them that you aren't putting your money into the pot hoping to lose, you're playing to win.

If someone wants to push all-in every hand, they're welcome to do so. They'll likely lose more often than they win, but they can play like that if they want. Your friends can't beat your style and are trying to get you to bet lower so the price is right for them to draw.

[ QUOTE ]

2) How big should a bet be to be a good sized bet in TA play? I was generally raising to 4xBig Blind. Sometimes if my hand didn't greatly improve and there were still too many in the hand I would go bigger. Anyone have any other suggestions?

[/ QUOTE ]

It really depends, but usually 3-5X the BB is standard. It depends on your opponents though. You may have A/K suited, but if you miss the flop, and you're up against fish who'll call with just about anything, it's hard to bluff them out. If they hit bottom pair they'll hang around until the river.

So you need to know your opponents and know what they think of your play style. I was playing a game against 2+2ers, and we had all been playing very TAG poker. So we were 7-handed playing limit hold em for cash, and I raised pre-flop, out of position with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I figured my opponents would put me on overcards or a pair. If the flop is high cards, I bet, they'll put me on the goods. If the flop is rags, I probably hit a part of it, or a strong draw, and I bet. They'll either put me on a pocket pair or think I'm bluffing with A/K and call me down, and I'll likely win. As it happened, the flop gave me an inside straight draw, a flush draw and an inside straight flush draw (wound up hitting my straight on the river)

I got lucky, but I got four callers pre-flop and by the river only one guy was calling me down. They were all shocked when I showed them my hand. Then I got paid off later when I held A/A.

[ QUOTE ]

3) As my chipstack went down I began to lose the agression as any large bet would cripple me. The blinds were also getting larger and they would have eaten at my stack also. What is the best strategy at this point?

Thanks,

Liam.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the point where your raise is going to pot-commit you, you need to push all-in. If the standard raise at some point would be 3x the BB to maybe 1800 chips, and you only have 3700 chips, you're pretty pot-commited at that point and might as well push all-in, instead of making it cheap enough for someone to see the flop against your hand and outdraw you (i.e. make them pay if they really want to outdraw you with a hand like Q/J suited)

Usually if you have less than 10X the BB left, you're in trouble and need to make some moves before it's too late.

In the 2+2 tourney I played, I got so short-stacked that I was down to 2400 chips and the blinds were 700/1400. I allowed myself to get to the point where I didn't have enough to force anyone off their hand. Everyone folded to me on the button, and I finally found A/K and pushed. Both the SB and BB called, and the BB held J/4 and flopped two pair, my King on the river didn't make any difference and I was done.

[neotope]

[ QUOTE ]
1) In my home game, when I started betting big, I got a lot of 'attitude' from people. It was all in good spirits but they were not happy and made comments about taking the fun out of the game and taking it all too seriusly. What's the best response to that? I obviously want to win and while I was playing TA I was winning but I became less Tight and less agressive (and lost!!)


[/ QUOTE ]

I have been in the same type of situation. My friends know that I play poker a lot and that I take it very seriously. Usually in home games we play 2-3 tournament style games. I will always play like a maniac during one of the games just to liven up the environment.

All of my poker buddies are playing poker for the social aspect of the game. We generally play $20 buy-in tournaments and $20 is lunch money to most of these guys.

I know most everyone will say that they would never play crazy if money was on the line but the fact of the matter is I like being invited to games and I like having a good time. I can't get any casino poker unless I drive 4 hours so I have to take what I can get.