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  #1  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:45 PM
colson10 colson10 is offline
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Default Bellagio 5diamond Hand

30K starting chips with 50-100 blinds.

I’m around 27K when UTG+1 limps for 100, UTG+2 is a super weak loose donk playing in his 3rd ever tournament (1st and 2nd being the satellites to get into this one), he makes it 500. This is deep into level 1 and while he has been in a number of pots, he has not raised preflop yet. I’m next to act with JJ, I call. Joe Awada, a couple spots behind me calls, Jdags in the SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 limper calls.

2600 in the pot, flop is 664r. Jdags leads out for 1200, limper folds, UTG+2 calls, I call, Awada makes it 2500 more, 3700 total. Everyone folds to me. 2500 to call, 9900 in the pot. I think for a minute, and Awada says, “don’t make me sweat longer than I have to.” I fold.

This is the first time I've played with Awada. He has been the most aggressive at the table so far. He is certainly capable of having nothing here. He can also have many hands with a 6 in it. I wouldn't be surprised if he called in this spot preflop with nearly any two cards. It's also a certainty that he will not just shut down on the turn if I call his raise.

Knowing how the hand turned out, raising the flop the first time around looks like a good idea, of course. Should I have been able to see this? When I called the flop I wasn't worried about Awada, I was worried about the other two. I wanted to just call the flop so that I could play the next two streets with position.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:04 PM
Yuv Yuv is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

Why not raise PF a bit and try to get HU with the weak-loose player? If he re-pops it, you can get away from a likely AA-QQ. If not, you're playing deep stack poker, with position, against the weakest player at the table.
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it a lot more after everyone folds than before. With the preflop call, it's hard to put him on a semi-bluff with big overcards because it sounds like he's aggressive enough to raise with that preflop.

Maybe he has a 6, but he is equally likely to have a 4, if you use the same rationale for the 4 as you do for the 6. Could be A4s or A6s.

More than likely he is on some other pair smaller than yours, maybe 5's, 7's or 8's.

I have a hard time letting the Jacks go here. I also consider reraising to say "the turn isn't going to be free either." I'd hate to cold call and then see an Ace or King come on the turn. But I don't know.

Look forward to seeing the results and other comments.
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:23 PM
MLG MLG is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

I like how you played it. There are so many things that can go wrong if you raise with the action in front of you that I hate building a big pot. If Joe picks a spot where 3 people have shown interest to run a play then the pot is his.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:31 PM
colson10 colson10 is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise PF a bit and try to get HU with the weak-loose player? If he re-pops it, you can get away from a likely AA-QQ. If not, you're playing deep stack poker, with position, against the weakest player at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that this a reasonable idea. Of course I like the idea of having position on a weak player HU. But he hadn't shown any aggression yet, so I thought it was way too likely that he had a bigger pair. I also figured that if I flopped a set he might go off for his whole stack with an overpair. And from seeing how he busted this was definitely true. His bustout hand was pretty funny so I'll detail it.

5 limpers for 200 to him on the button, sitting with about 25K. He fiddles with his chips a bit, obviously thinking about raising. He ends up limping behind. I complete from the SB, BB checks. 8 ways to the flop, KK2r. checks to Jdags in MP who bets 1K, folds to button who makes it 3K, I fold, BB makes it 9K, everyone folds back to the button who asks how much it is to raise again. He min raises to 15K, with 9Kish behind, BB calls. Turn is 7, BB leads out all in, Button obviously doesn't like where he is, but throws his last chips in. KJ for BB, AA for button. No help for him on the river.
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:34 PM
colson10 colson10 is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

[ QUOTE ]


Look forward to seeing the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said in the original post, I folded. There is no way I can just call his raise. I will face a huge bet on the turn and will essentially be playing for my whole stack here.
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:39 PM
LearnedfromTV LearnedfromTV is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

*Disclaimer that this above my buyin level.*

I would lean toward reraising preflop, because your call heads you into a multiway pot most of the time, assuming the good players at the table read the raiser like you do (and it sounds like they would).

You ask if you should have raised the flop the first time - maybe, but I think Awada can still pretty easily read you for the mid+ pair you have and come over the top anyway without a 6. As the first caller you're the one least likely to have a 6, making it easier for someone else to represent one to you, especially once you've shown flop strength (which is often a means of sniffing for greater strength, as you imply).

The thing that strikes me about this hand is that the raiser only called the flop bet. So even though he's loose, he probably on the way to folding his overcards to a raise, and so what looks like a bad spot to bluff for Awada is actually a pretty good one - it's a pseudo protected-pot plus anyone who calls is going to be on the defensive, and it doesn't cost him much relative to the pot.

If you call and check the turn, you are probably facing a sizeable bet with a wide range that becomes tougher to play against if an overcard hits. If you reraise with the intention of not putting any more in the pot, he can call and take it away from you a lot of the time, because he's still pretty sure you don't have a 6 and he has position. If you reraise with the intention of playing for your stack, you lose your stack when he has a 6 and don't get much more when he doesn't.

I think I fold because I can't find a good way to continue, even though I would like to.
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Look forward to seeing the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said in the original post, I folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

D'OH!!
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  #9  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:42 PM
Annulus Annulus is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

Do you play this hand the same way verse Joe in a stars $150 tourney? Im just curious.
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:48 PM
colson10 colson10 is offline
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Default Re: Bellagio 5diamond Hand

[ QUOTE ]
I like how you played it. There are so many things that can go wrong if you raise with the action in front of you that I hate building a big pot. If Joe picks a spot where 3 people have shown interest to run a play then the pot is his.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think about running a play here if you're in Awada's spot? I know this depends on too many factors for you to really answer, but I wish I was good enough to do this.

I feel like every time I've tried to run a play in the last handfull of big live tournaments I've played, I've failed. After playing a few of the 5diamond events, tight and aggressive seemed to be the way to play. It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately but am feeling very unsure about. It always depends on your table, but every table I had in all those events was so loose aggressive that if I caught cards or made some pairs I'd get some chips. Everytime I got out of line, I got caught. But maybe I'm just not picking my spots well enough.

There was a hand from the 5K event where EP opened for 200, LP called, and I just called in the BB with JJ (6K stack). Flop is 722, EP leads small for like 300, LP makes it 800, I make it 2100 and they both fold. I think I played the hand fine, but I wish I was good enough to make that move with air.

Sirio and I talked about TAG vs LAG in these tournaments and he seemed to agree that TAG generally works better these days, with all the LAGs out there. but I'm still unsure about it all.
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