2-4 Party JJ hand

mikeyvegas · #1 02-21-2005, 12:13 AM

So, pretty much no reads except I have no respect for my opponents. I should work on this...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG+1 caps, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (18.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.75 BB

Chairman Wood · #2 02-21-2005, 12:36 AM

I think this is fine. Reads would help. Would you fold to a turn 3-bet?

billyjex · #3 02-21-2005, 12:37 AM

I think I would raise the flop so hopefully UTG+1 3-bets the field and faces them with two cold.

A flush draw or OESD isn't going anywhere but you can fold small pairs and gutshots from outdrawing you and go from there.

peachy · #4 02-21-2005, 01:50 AM

u played it alright

Evan · #5 02-21-2005, 02:14 AM

Why did you call the flop and raise the turn? If you think your hand is usually best you should raise the flop, if you don't you shouldn't raise the turn. This isn't a 'wait til the turn to protect' spot.

DeathDonkey · #6 02-21-2005, 02:18 AM

Why isn't this a wait til the turn to protect spot? This seems just about perfect for it. Is it the fact that you would be more inclined to wait til the turn when you are much more confident you have the best hand on the flop?

Thanks,
DeathDonkey

billyjex · #7 02-21-2005, 02:21 AM

You can't protect your hand on the turn in this spot -- your position to the aggressor allows everyone to call before you raise. You're trapping them, not forcing them out. I like a flop raise because you can force them out if the aggressor 3-bets. If he just calls, you can take the lead in the hand.

Evan · #8 02-21-2005, 02:22 AM

Your relative position makes protection impossible.

EDIT: ugh, I'm always too late.

Shillx · #9 02-21-2005, 02:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why isn't this a wait til the turn to protect spot? This seems just about perfect for it. Is it the fact that you would be more inclined to wait til the turn when you are much more confident you have the best hand on the flop?

Thanks,
DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting until the turn sucks in this hand. It mainly has to do with his range of hands that he will bet the flop with (pretty much anything) and his range of hands that he will bet the turn with (overpairs and not AK). When he bets the turn, we are almost surely drawing to just 2 outs. If we are going to raise, we need to pop the flop when it is still possible that we are good.

Brad

DeathDonkey · #10 02-21-2005, 02:36 AM

Well of course, the wait til the turn to raise play isn't really about protection so much it is about value and equity. This seems like a decent spot to me except for the fact that we may not have the best hand. Had one of the others bet the flop in early position and not the PFR I think this would be a great spot to wait until the turn to raise.

-DeathDonkey