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  #1  
Old 05-17-2005, 01:46 PM
DcifrThs DcifrThs is offline
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Default river bet?

one of those derb type players (but noticeably tighter on the later streets) i.e. 30/19/2 or fairly loose aggressive open raises in MP1, button who is even looser 35/24/2 3bets on the button and i call in the sb w/ AcJc bb folds MP1 caps we both call.

flop is 9c7c3s i cold call (mistake #1 imo) mp1 calls.

turn is horrible Ah i check MP1 bets button calls i call.

river is a 5h. i bet.

-Barron
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2005, 02:09 PM
AviD AviD is offline
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Default Re: river bet?

[ QUOTE ]
one of those derb type players (but noticeably tighter on the later streets) i.e. 30/19/2 or fairly loose aggressive open raises in MP1, button who is even looser 35/24/2 3bets on the button and i call in the sb w/ AcJc bb folds MP1 caps we both call.

flop is 9c7c3s i cold call (mistake #1 imo) mp1 calls.

turn is horrible Ah i check MP1 bets button calls i call.

river is a 5h. i bet.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop action is very unclear...I assume you check, MP1 bets, Button raises, you cold call and MP1 calls. I think your cold call is fine.

Turn is an A, a "horrible" card and MP1 comes alive and bets again...button just calls and you call.

Now you come alive and bet the river.

I don't think a better hand is folding to that river bet by these players ever...in fact you are likely to get raised by MP1. If the A was ugly on the turn what makes it more appealing on the river?

I'm assuming you fear they'll check through with worse hands they would have otherwise called with, thus your bet. So the turn is horrible because you figure it kills the action or because MP1 just hit a better A? (neither of which seems like good reasoning) I think with your cold call its clear you are on at least a club or straight draw (if not slowplaying a made hand). DERB type players probably aren't overly concerned about you though as you probably would have shown aggression on the turn if you had a strong made hand and an opp to CR the 2 of them.

Very confusing play IMO on your part. Given your turn action, why not CR if you think you have the best hand...which is why you are betting the river because you want hands that would otherwise check through to call a bet. If you are betting in hopes of getting a better hand to fold, I think its a bad bet. If you are betting in fear of getting bluff/semi bluff raised out of the pot if MP1 bets and button raises...well that's a completely different dynamic to the hand but you said they are noticeably tighter on later streets so is your AJ any good then anyway? Is button creative enough to raise to protect his hand and push you off a better one on the river?

I don't understand why your cold call was horrible on the flop vs your cold call preflop. If it was a horrible flop cold call, it was a horrible preflop semi cold call.

I also don't understand the horrible turn card. You have a board with turned top pair and flopped nut draw...why did you call preflop again? You hit everything you were hoping to hit, no?
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2005, 03:18 PM
rigoletto rigoletto is offline
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Default Re: river bet?

I assume you can fold to a raise. In that case I like the bet.

I don't think coldcalling the flop is so bad. You are not folding AK here anyway.
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  #4  
Old 05-17-2005, 05:17 PM
phifediggy phifediggy is offline
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Default Re: river bet?

i would've checked the river.. if you are beat you save a bet and get to showdown, while if you're ahead you give MP1 a chance to keep betting and the button to call. given that MP1 is noticeably tighter on later streets and he bet out the turn, i dont think the 5h will change his opinion on the hand.
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  #5  
Old 05-17-2005, 05:46 PM
DcifrThs DcifrThs is offline
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Default Re: river bet? RESULTS and stuff

EDIT: forgot to put in the results. MP1 called button folded. AK took it down. EDIT2: forgot to mention that MP1 took almost all of his time to call. after the hand was over MP1 said, "wow, very good bet. you really almost had me there." but i didn't think it was that good, but worth a shot given the pot size and the position i'd be putting MP1 in.


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
one of those derb type players (but noticeably tighter on the later streets) i.e. 30/19/2 or fairly loose aggressive open raises in MP1, button who is even looser 35/24/2 3bets on the button and i call in the sb w/ AcJc bb folds MP1 caps we both call.

flop is 9c7c3s i cold call (mistake #1 imo) mp1 calls.

turn is horrible Ah i check MP1 bets button calls i call.

river is a 5h. i bet.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop action is very unclear...I assume you check, MP1 bets, Button raises, you cold call and MP1 calls. I think your cold call is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

after i cold called i realized that it would be a huge mistake for me to do so when he has AK and an ace turns and a minor mistake when he has a big pair and 3 bets given the # of outs i have. i dont think he calls w/ AK there.

[ QUOTE ]


Turn is an A, a "horrible" card and MP1 comes alive and bets again...button just calls and you call.

Now you come alive and bet the river.

I don't think a better hand is folding to that river bet by these players ever...in fact you are likely to get raised by MP1. If the A was ugly on the turn what makes it more appealing on the river?



[/ QUOTE ]

what makes it apealing is that its clear i know the MP1 has a good hand and that the button looks intent on calling. MP1 is a very winning player in this game and is probably capable of making this laydown. i know we both have the button beat but i also know for sure when he(mp1) bet calls the flop and bets the A turn he has AK. i cannot check call the river. i know im beat and its a check fold, bet, or checkraise spot for me.

the best scenario is if i check he bets and the button calls b/c THEN my c'r will make him fold ALOT of the time and im almost positive i have the button beat.

but i dont know if the button calls the river to mp1's bet again. so i bet making it tough for mp1 to call because it looks like he'll get to see my hand anyway and AK doesn't look as hot as it did on the turn given that i just called the whole way and it looks like i want both mp1 and button to call.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming you fear they'll check through with worse hands they would have otherwise called with, thus your bet. So the turn is horrible because you figure it kills the action or because MP1 just hit a better A? (neither of which seems like good reasoning) I think with your cold call its clear you are on at least a club or straight draw (if not slowplaying a made hand). DERB type players probably aren't overly concerned about you though as you probably would have shown aggression on the turn if you had a strong made hand and an opp to CR the 2 of them.

Very confusing play IMO on your part. Given your turn action, why not CR if you think you have the best hand...which is why you are betting the river because you want hands that would otherwise check through to call a bet. If you are betting in hopes of getting a better hand to fold, I think its a bad bet. If you are betting in fear of getting bluff/semi bluff raised out of the pot if MP1 bets and button raises...well that's a completely different dynamic to the hand but you said they are noticeably tighter on later streets so is your AJ any good then anyway? Is button creative enough to raise to protect his hand and push you off a better one on the river?

I don't understand why your cold call was horrible on the flop vs your cold call preflop. If it was a horrible flop cold call, it was a horrible preflop semi cold call.

I also don't understand the horrible turn card. You have a board with turned top pair and flopped nut draw...why did you call preflop again? You hit everything you were hoping to hit, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

turn card was horrible because i didn't 3 bet the flop. i allowed AK to play correctly when he could have made a mistake by folding for ONE extra small bet in this growing pot

preflop i dont think is bad because they are both raising pretty light preflop and especially the button. he's been 3betting lots of crap.

on the flop i COULD have bet 3 bet or bet cap and that would put pressure on an overpair like JJ on the later streets if a K were to fall thus increasing the number of my "outs" a la the QJ example in HPFAP when QJ has "bluffing outs" of AK and real outs of QJ. and this is all on the flop where im going to be calling any # of bets here b/c i have the nut draw and a bd straight draw and a possible overcard. so im not concerned w/ saving bets on that flop.

cant remember what else you were wondering about & too lazy to look down and write more so i hope this helps...by the way, im not sure about the whole thing so thats why i posted it..these are justmy thoughts and are not set in stone, ... i can be convinced of lots in this hand.

and for the record i would have checkraised the river if i KNEW the button would call MP1's bet.

-Barron
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2005, 07:38 PM
rigoletto rigoletto is offline
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Default Re: river bet? RESULTS and stuff

Do you really think AK folds for 2sb on this flop. I would read you for TT-JJ or AK most of the time and given the description of opponent I don't see him fold here.
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