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  #11  
Old 03-28-2005, 08:03 PM
Cornell Fiji Cornell Fiji is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut straight, then saw a scary turn

I don't really like the way that you played the hand on any street.

This is a flop that I want to make sure doesn't check around. I have some fear of the flush draw but the real reason I want to lead out is to make sure that we are playing for a big pot. In addition, hands like any pp, flush draw, and a tricky AK might raise you here (in which case I would either 3-bet or open push the turn.) In addition a checkraise shows a ton of stregnth on the flop and could end your action.

The turn card isn't good but getting 2:1 on your hand here I would still want to get all in. I wouldnt want to give a flushdraw a free card so I would probably bet 1/2 pot here and all in on the river

Given the action to you I would go all in and expect to lose 1/3 of the time but I think the passive way that you played the hand is long run -EV.

-Steve
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2005, 05:17 PM
PeteGI PeteGI is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut straight, then saw a scary turn

It seems to me that you are far ahead in this hand. The hand I would put him on is Ace 5, possible with the draw as well. He figures you for two pair or the straight, so it is a question of whether he wants to try and draw against you. When the 5 comes out and you check, it gives him the green light to bet his top set and try to take the pot.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2005, 05:58 PM
LuvDemNutz LuvDemNutz is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut straight, then saw a scary turn

I think I would've led for $100 and folded to a raise. I think if if he flat calls you can feel pretty confident that he has diamonds (or 55).

Either way, I think giving up control of the hand is a big mistake.
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2005, 11:13 PM
mr. shred mr. shred is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut straight, then saw a scary turn

I think I would have put him on ace, five or no better than a set. When it took him that long to call what could he have? I'd say you have to call so you might as well put him all in
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2005, 09:02 PM
pokergripes pokergripes is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut straight, then saw a scary turn

Dude, not to be rude, but if you are going to check-fold in that situation, then please join my table, and the same for anyone who block bets the turn (although that's a lot better than a check fold, anyway). Hero has to push in on the turn and pray the other guy puts him on mid-sized diamonds, because the best hand the guy now has is ace-five (maybe with the dry ace of diamonds), and he probably has way less than that (because I don't think ace-five calls that big re-raise on the flop, it just folds and doesn't try to hit a five-outer against a likely mid-sized overpair for a big piece of his stack). Why do you think he doesn't have big diamonds himself? Seems like the most likely holding he would have to me, and in any event, with a made hand against at most a set, I'm going to find out for all the chips...
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  #16  
Old 04-02-2005, 09:49 PM
aggie aggie is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut straight, then saw a scary turn

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, not to be rude, but if you are going to check-fold in that situation, then please join my table,

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with you that FF played this hand horribly, I highly doubt you want him at your table. He plays extremely solid and can be quite creative at times. Unless you play super high (above 10-20nl) i would guess that FF is a favorite at any table you would be at.

Anyway, don't be so quick to judge somebody based on one hand.
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  #17  
Old 04-03-2005, 12:05 AM
pokergripes pokergripes is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut straight, then saw a scary turn

Sometimes I play bigger than that, depends on the table...but you make a good point, I shouldn't assume too much from one hand. On the other hand, it was obviously hyperbole, was making the same point you did (but without saying that he played the hand "horribly", which might actually be ruder...)

If it helps, I was pretty trashed when I posted it [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2005, 04:18 AM
FoxwoodsFiend FoxwoodsFiend is offline
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Default Results

No hard feelings.
So, I folded-he flipped over 22. I was posting this hand to see if anybody would think it's reasonable to check-fold here. I think the big question is-what would somebody call a pretty big check-raise with on this board? A diamond draw seems unlikely because unless he thinks he can stack me when an obvious scare card comes, he's probably incorrect to call this check re-raise. For anybody out there who thinks that a "solid player" would call a check RE-raise with TPTK on a 5-high board, I would honestly question what you think solid poker play is. And for anybody who says I should just push all in, the philosophy of "well, you've charged the draw plenty so when it's possible the guy hits on you you might as well finish the deal" is a good way to lose a lot of money. I think the only pertinent question is, given that this guy was clearly on a draw of some sort, would a diamond draw put in a half-sized, pot-comitting bet with position on the turn? I thought that was unlikely enough that I could fold. Again, if you think a better line is called for, please explain it but I'm skeptical that getting all my chips in is the right answer here.

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I play bigger than that, depends on the table...but you make a good point, I shouldn't assume too much from one hand. On the other hand, it was obviously hyperbole, was making the same point you did (but without saying that he played the hand "horribly", which might actually be ruder...)

If it helps, I was pretty trashed when I posted it [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2005, 09:11 PM
pokergripes pokergripes is offline
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Default Re: Results

Obviously hard to argue the laydown after you say he flipped over 22, but that being said, you also left out that he was tricky enough to think for 20 seconds before calling on the flop. Oh well, nice laydown [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2005, 05:16 AM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Default Re: Flopped nut straight, then saw a scary turn

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that you are far ahead in this hand. The hand I would put him on is Ace 5, possible with the draw as well. He figures you for two pair or the straight, so it is a question of whether he wants to try and draw against you. When the 5 comes out and you check, it gives him the green light to bet his top set and try to take the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

With $450 and change villain doesn't really have a monster stack relative to the $4 big blind (for example, 100 times the blind is the Party Poker restricted buy in). Because of the small stack sizes, I would expect he would have some gamble even if he is very tight and/or solid. So IMHO villain flopping a set is at most a small favorite.

I'm not sure that A5 is the exact hand but Hero has to realize he is ahead (and can stay ahead) of quite a few hands. Hero just has to estimate how possible and look at the size of the pot. In this case Hero is close to potstuck. There is about $290 already in and villain only has about $300 more. So Hero is at least break even if he wins one time in three. I think he is close to even money so the money should go in.

~ Rick
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