Math Degrees and Careers

That's probably "enough" in some sense, but it really I think is a case of more is better. Even something like abstract algebra that you won't really use directly in economics is useful because it teaches you better how to think rigorously and construct proofs, something you will need in first year micro and metrics. Differential equations will be a big help getting through first year macro. Topology is generally recommended, but I don't feel like I missed anything by not getting that at the undergrad level. I'd definitely take a second semester of real analysis if they offer it. I'd also take any other math class you see that seems fun or interesting unless doing so hampers you from getting something else you need.

Basically, while you can succeed at a top program with that background (I know people doing reasonably well with a lot less math), you'll find that how much you enjoy the first year of econ grad school is pretty much directly related to how much math you've had in the past. Aside from basic macro/micro, undergrad econ classes won't really help at all except to make you aware of some of the issues that people study.

If you want to do economic theory (which most people don't), take every math class you can get. You will likely want to start taking graduate math classes as well since most people who do this have either a masters in math or a relatively equivalent background.

If you want to do econometric theory (which again most people don't), those stat graduate classes will help. Many people who do this end up with a masters in stat or equivalent training.

Also, you should check out econphd (google it, I think but am not sure that it is just econphd.net). I found that moderately helpful when I was in the applications process.

[mittman84]

Thank you for the reply. I am currently on winter break of my junior year as an undergrad. I just recetly (about 1 month ago) decided I wanted to become an econ college professor instead of going into actuarial science. I am a little worried about what grad schools I will be able to get into. I only had a 3.5 gpa because that is considered 'good' for an actuarial science undergrad, and with a 3.5 and 1-2 of the actuarial exams passed I would have no trouble finding a good job coming out of school. So I have never really put any effort into school because I was never really interested/passionate about it, I just kind of showed up went though the motions and squeeked by with a 3.5. I have a 4.0 thus far in all econ classes and roughly a 3.75 in all math and stat classes. I know I will do well on the enterance exams to grad school and will have good letters of recomendation, but I am a little worried that having 'only' a 3.5 this far will hurt me when trying to get into a good school. The next 3 semesters should be pretty easy and should be able to bump up the gpa somewhat. I have talked to an econ professor at my school who I really like and he said that a 3.5 wont hurt me very much, but I am still a little worried I won't be able to get into as good of a school as I would like becuase of it. From your experience do you think that will hurt me? I will deffinitly be taking introduction to annalysis, intro to econometrics, economic forcasting, advanced micro and macro (600 masters level), possibly differential equations and advanced calculus if you/others think they are benificial. Thanks again

I don't think a 3.5 is the end of the world. I had something a bit higher, but I went to a pretty/very weak undergraduate school. They will care more about how you do in math classes (well, mostly real analysis) and to a lesser extent your econ classes. Good letters also help. A very good quantitative (they won't care about the verbal and won't care much about the analytical) GRE score is essential. The test is complete BS, but if you don't score an 800 it raises a lot of questions. Anything below 760/770 really hurts your chances a lot.

Those courses sound about right to me. The masters level micro/macro probably sends a good signal, though they may not really help you after you get to grad school (this depends on the quality of your institution. I took these kind of courses at my undergrad institution and they have no bearing on what I do now. But if you go to a better school they might be helpful. They probably send a good signal either way.) The other courses seem good. Work in as much math as possible and get good grades in your math classes, especially real analysis. I've heard that some admissions people go so far as to say that the only thing they look at is the grade in real analysis (this can't be the norm since there are many people in my program who didn't even take real analysis and this is considered a top school, but it at least makes some point).

Also, whenever you do apply, apply to ALL of the top schools, unless there are one or two you know you wouldn't attend (for me this would have been Chicago, I don't really appreciate the ultra competitive environment). It is somewhat of a crapshoot where you get into. I got into a school which is supposedly in the top 5 in the current rankings with full funding, but was not offered funding at a school ranked around 10, and rejected from a school not ranked in the top 15. So, IMO, your best bet is apply to the entire top 10 and maybe 5-10 other schools that you like. This is costly in terms of money since most apps cost around $50 or more, but if you're going to be spending 4 or 5 years someplace it makes sense to invest upfront in finding a good match. And in terms of effort, once you're up to around 5 schools or so the applications don't really take much additional effort since you can start recycling your statements of purpose with not very many changes. Best of luck to you.

[mittman84]

My school doesnt have a PhD program in mathmatics but does have a masters program. I am looking though the bulletin and do not see a real annalysis course. There is MTH332 Introduction to Analysis, MTH439 Numerical Analysis and MTH632 Introduction to Real Analysis and Its Applications. How advanced is real analysis? It doesnt seem to make sence that my school doesnt have it since it has a masters program in math. How hard is the course work for a Phd really? Reading that site you showed me is scaring me a little. The two professors I have talked to said grad school was a great time and made it sound like the the math wasnt very demanding. They went to U of Illinois, and U of Georgia, so not exactly Harvard. The one who went to Illinois make it sound like as long as I can take derivatives I would be all set (obviously exadurating, lol). I am looking at going to an upper-middle of the pack school (ie: big ten, ohio st, illinios etc)

Well probably introduction to analysis is intro to real analysis. Real analysis is just analysis done only on the real line (as opposed to complex analysis or vector/multivariate analysis which works in the complex plane and R^n (not sure how to write that in a forum) respectively). Basically, what you do in this course is build up a lot of machinery with rigorous definitions of limits, and then use that to prove most of what you learn in a basic calculus class. It HAS to be offered anywhere there is an undergrad math major, so it's probably just not called real analysis. You'll certainly know once you see your textbook, but my guess is that the 332 course is that one (and very likely NOT the 439 course). Probably the 632 is the masters level version. Definitely do NOT take that until taking the intro level course. Math is one subject where I don't advocate skipping anything to move onto something more difficult.

As far as how hard the course work is, well...I'm not sure exactly how to answer that. I've found first year courses fairly easy, though of course you do have to put in a reasonable amount of work. People with less of a math background generally seem to find them harder. It's certainly not something that is unbelievably difficult.

To get into the schools you are talking about, you should be reasonably fine. Those are good schools, but a lot of what you see on places like econphd is geared for people who are shooting for a top 5 school. If you do well in your analysis class, reasonably well on the GRE, maybe work in a few more math classes and get good letters, you should be in very good shape for the kinds of places you are looking at. In fact, if you do these things you will want to consider at least applying to some of the top 10/top 20 schools (unless you would not want to go to them).

[mittman84]

Thanks for the info again. If you don't mind me asking, where did you go to undergrad school and where are you now? (could PM me if you dont want to post here) We have Advanced Calculus I and II which has a pre rec of calc3 obviously and introduction to analysis, so maybe those are the real analysis courses. My goal is to get a PhD at a good (but not necessarily great ) school, and become a college econ professor at a medium (or bigger) sized school (such as the one I am at, Central Michigan University). At my school many of my professors have been published and continue to do research. The one I like the most has been published many times studying cartels and economic history. Doing research and teaching economics really interests me. I was told there is going to be a high demand for economic PhDs at universitys because there will be many retirements in the coming future, but econphd made it sound like there isnt (but I think they were talking about top 5 school possitions)

[mittman84]

are you replying about the math required for grad level economics?

I sent you a pm since I think this has probably gone past the level of detail that everyone else would want to read.

[alThor]

It sounds like MathEcon and I have similar backgrounds, so not surprisingly I agree with almost everything he said. However, I would not call first year classes 'easy' at any top 15 program. They are doable, but I went to a program with a very international make up (relative to most), and the Americans (including me) were, on average, the least math-prepared. It sounds like you will have taken more math than I did, though, so don't sweat it.

Since you are already getting good advice, I will just add one thing. If you think you will do macro, you could add a dynamic programming course to your list, if you have room.

alThor

[edtost]

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I sent you a pm since I think this has probably gone past the level of detail that everyone else would want to read.

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if you could send me a copy of any advice you might have, that would be greatly appreciated.