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  #1  
Old 12-14-2005, 02:00 AM
TGoldman TGoldman is offline
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Default Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

I stumbled across this short 3 article introduction to PLO/8 strategy coutesy of pokerpages. I read through it and I disagree with quite a bit of what he wrote. Nonetheless, it was new material for me and since there's such a shortage of PLO/8 articles I figured I would share.

Article 1
Article 2
Article 3
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2005, 09:02 AM
DrewOnTilt DrewOnTilt is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

Good GRIEF does that man ever need to take a basic grammar class.

What does everyone else think of the general advice in his articles? The whole tone seems a beat weak-passive.
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2005, 11:37 AM
Ironman Ironman is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

I think that advice is GENERALLY ok for a new PLO8 player.

I disagree with his "playable hand" selection as I believe in a passive game many more hands are playable that can be discarded for a small bet when they don't connect...but I can see this to be a basic guide for a new player.

I THINK I disagree with his comment about trapping opponents with a hand like A A 2 from early position. I have tried slow playing this hand but just generally realize I don't know where I stand post flop and it gets me in trouble.

I think the best way to handle the A A 2 hand from early position is to raise early and often, bring along the other A 2 dealt and get the 3/4 heads up.

Those are my thoughts.

Dave
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  #4  
Old 12-14-2005, 12:23 PM
Cooker Cooker is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

I think no information is better than bad information. I think these articles were poor on the whole and will start you off as a very weak tight nut peddler. There were some decent points, but he basically assumes the game is a showdown game, which it is not. There are many pots to be stolen and many splits which can be turned into scoops with well timed bets. I thought much of the advice was questionable to poor from starting hand selection to his postflop recommendations.
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2005, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

I'm assuming he's trying to appeal to newer PLO8 players...

I think he's way off on two things he said. But I'll leave you guys to guess which two [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2005, 06:11 PM
Mendacious Mendacious is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

I know which two...do you see why?
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2005, 06:20 PM
jedi jedi is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

[ QUOTE ]
I think no information is better than bad information. I think these articles were poor on the whole and will start you off as a very weak tight nut peddler.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not the worst thing in the world in low limit. Sure, it's not going to help you learn to play PLO8, but it'll stop you from hemmoraging chips. I think I'm at this stage right now. I need to learn to get better.
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  #8  
Old 12-14-2005, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

It looks like he is using a similar literary template as he used for his Introduction to No Limit Hold 'Em articles, which I've quoted below. If you read the PLO8 series side-by-side with the NLHE series, you'll probably notice that he not only nearly plagarizes himself many times, but that the articles are of very similar quality/accuracy in terms of content:


Part 1 - Error's in NLHE
No-limit hold'em is a game of winning pots. this is a strange sentence but bear with me I will explain what I mean. In NLHE the pot will usually be heads up by the river, therefor both players will probably have a strong hand. The position you want to be in is having the stronger hand. If you and your opponent have the same pair, but you also have higher kicker to go with it you will win a nice amount of money from your lone opponent. Your opponents will have a hard time folding a hand, and with the betting being No Limit you can extract quite a bit of money on that 1 river bet.

When you are playing NLHE remember you WANT your opponents to hold a good hand, but you want yours to be just a little bit better. You will have a hard time getting a straight or two pair to call an all-in sized bet on the river when you have a flush, in Limit people do not mind losing a single bet calling with these hands, in No Limit that bet could be all of their money! Mediocre hands will not usually call big bets on the end in No Limit, that is why you want your opponent(s) to have a strong one way hand.

In part 2 of this series I will discuss starting hands.

----------------------------------------------------------

Part 2 -Starting hands.
In Limit Hold'em a good starting hand begins with an A. This doesn't necessarily make them strong hands but it is a good place to start, and most people will play any hand with an A. In NLHE a good starting hand begins with an A-card and another paint-card card (K, Q, or J). Again this doesn't make them strong hands but it is a start. If your hand doesn't have a strong backup card you should think twice about even playing it, even if it has an A. A6 is a nice, playable, hand in NLHE, but it is not the powerhouse that it is in limit.

Top Flight Hands

AQs AA AJs AKs

The second tier of NLHE hands are much different than in limit. Hands like AQo or AJo do not have the same strength that they offer in a limit game. However hands like TT or 44 gain strength in no limit. Notice the coordination up when you hit a flop with these hands--both cards are of the same rank, meaning that when you hit the flop you will have three of a kind. The bets get big AFTER the flop in NLHE that's when you need the strong hands to call or raise the pot.

A second tier hand in NLHE is one where all 2 cards are very coordinated and if the right card falls on the flop you will undoubtedly have the best hand. A second tier hand should be played in multi-way or unraised pots.

Second Tier Hands

KK TT 44 TJs JTs

The remainder of playable NLHE starting hands are what I call situational hands. These are hands that given the right set of circumstances are playable. In an unraised pot or passive game you should be playing A hands that are accompanied by another card. Why another card? When you hit that A you are also very likely to hit your second card as well. This is not the case with a hand like J4o, which many people would consider superior to A3, since J4o is unlikely to flop 2 pair. I refer to these hands as running in different directions, usually they get you nowhere.

Some other hands that can be played for a single bet from late position are the double trouble hands, hands that will need 3 specific cards to become strong hands but if you do hit you have a monster. These are hands like J7 and 25, especially with suits. These hands are playable because they are easy to fold when you miss, therefor keeping you out of trouble.

Situational Hands

QQ JJ 79o TJo

I don't recommend playing hands like 99 or 88 unless you are in late position and are sure the pot will not be raise. You also need to be experienced enough to not get stuck in the pot drawing to a set after the flop. It will probably be hard for you to fold hands like these at first, especially if you are coming from limit HE but these hands are very marginal in a typical NLHE game.

In the final installment of this series I will discuss playing after the flop.

----------------------------------------------------------

Part 3: Post-flop play
In this, the final installment of this series I will shed some light on how to handle some common post-flop situations.

All of the examples I give are for when the players are average or better, in looser games where multiple players go to showdown this advice will not apply.

Situation 1 - You flop a hand that is vulnerable to draws and someone bets the pot in front of you.

Suppose you got a free play from the BB holding 49o with 4 limpers. The 5 of you and see a flop of 4c 6c 8s and the SB checks what should you do with bottom pair?

A decent player would say, "I should bet the pot here to try to eliminate draws and hopefully pick up the pot uncontested".

A great player would say, "I have crap bottom pair and any sizeable bet will only be called by someone with a better hand or draw like a flush draw or 2 pair."

Far too often I see people bet the pot here trying to protect a vulnerable hand. With no chance for further improvement you should be looking for any reason to fold this hand. At best you will receive only half the pot if you are called by another player who holds 94 and will very likely be trapped into calling heads up if the board pairs or another club falls. The rare times you pick up the pot uncontested it is insignificant since there was no pre-flop raise.

This is without doubt the biggest mistake people make in NLHE and Limit for that matter.

Situation 2 - you flop a decent hand but not the nuts.

Suppose you have 44 on the button and 4 people see the flop of 3 5 7 how should you proceed in the following situations?

A) A good player bets out the pot, is raised by another player, and a 3rd player calls.

Here none of your hand is likely to be good at the moment not the straight possibility, not the pair, nothing. When confronted with a pot sized bet, a raise, and a smooth call you need the nuts to even consider calling. This holds true when you are confronted with a raise and re-raise even without the smooth call.

B) A good player again bets out 1/2 the pot but this time everyone folds to you.

Now in this scenario many players would call or even raise figuring the other player needs a very specific hand to beat you. In reality you are the only one risking anything here, the other player must have you currently beaten and you are hoping to win the pot which by the end of the hand will consist winning pots, the only one with good pot-winning potential in this spot is your opponent.

Now in limit HE when you have a good holding you want to eliminate other players to increase your chance of winning. In NLHE on the other hand you will most likely only get calls from players that can beat your hand if you bet the pot. In NLHE these hands have to be folded to any serious pressure.

I hope you enjoyed this series on No Limit Hold 'Em and can take some of the advice I have given and apply it at the tables. (Also, I am a fking retard.)
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2005, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

Part 2 of Fat Ballz screws with the internet. Well done.
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2005, 08:49 PM
Beavis68 Beavis68 is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

The only other thing on PLO8b I had read is Ray Zee, and this stuff contradicts Zee's page.

I am terrible at the game, but the articles made me think.
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