ethics - do you point this out?

[varoadstter]

[ QUOTE ]
This is very unlikely to happen in a real cardroom, as the dealer knows the hand rankings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be too sure! I've witnessed dealers pushing the pot to the wrong player many times. I'm certain that others have seen this as well. You must remain vigilant at the tables even when there is a dealer present.

[Lottery Larry]

Bad advice, bad opinion, bad attitude

[Hashiell_Dammett]

[ QUOTE ]
This is very unlikely to happen in a real cardroom, as the dealer knows the hand rankings.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen it happen on several ocassions.

[ QUOTE ]
At the same time, it is your job, not mine, to know the rules of poker when you sit down to play it.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is not a case of somebody folding a full house because they thought it didn't beat a flush. It is a simple oversight that everyone (you, me and professional dealers included) is capable of making.
Also, this reeks of yet another rationalization for immoral behavior. It is the same rationalization that con artists, card mechanics and other card cheats use to rationalize their behavior; "It's the sucker's fault for being such a sucker."

[ QUOTE ]
And you are right there is no ethical dilemma here, but that doesn't mean that there is no dilemma on which choice to make given the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I think it is an easy decision. You might think it's hard for a second or two beacuse it would be so easy to do the wrong thing. But if you think about it for 3 seconds or more, you'd realize that it is just as easy to do the right thing.

[Hashiell_Dammett]

[ QUOTE ]
Its not your fault.

[/ QUOTE ]
It has nothing to do with fault.

[ QUOTE ]
No ethics involved.

[/ QUOTE ]
Only if ethics are a mystery to you.

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is about lying and winning money.

[/ QUOTE ]
This might be what poker is about for you but I think there are probably a few million poker players that would disagree that this is what poker is about.

Anyone here who is saying its SO obvious what they would do is only saying it because they don't have $400 in chips shoved in front of them right now.

Most ppl would at least THINK of keeping the money

[Hashiell_Dammett]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone here who is saying its SO obvious what they would do is only saying it because they don't have $400 in chips shoved in front of them right now.

Most ppl would at least THINK of keeping the money

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll take it one further and say that most people would actually KEEP THE MONEY despite the fact that they KNOW IT'S WRONG.

I'm not saying that you wouldn't be tempted to keep the money. In this particular case, doing the wrong thing would be much easier than doing the right thing, since the wrong thing nets you a tourney win and I don't know how much cash. But whether there is $4 at stake or $4 million, the right thing to do is still obvious - it's just more difficult to do when you have $4 million at stake rather than $40.

In fact, when it comes to ethics, the more difficult it is to do the right thing, the more value it has. That is, you don't get any brownie points for NOT robbing a bank on your way to work today, because NOT robbing a bank is a hell of a lot easier than robbing one.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, this reeks of yet another rationalization for immoral behavior. It is the same rationalization that con artists, card mechanics and other card cheats use to rationalize their behavior; "It's the sucker's fault for being such a sucker."

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there something wrong with this rationalization? And I don't even need to rationalize it. I had no problem cheating in school, didn't need to tell myself it was ok. You (or maybe not you) and others have no problem using pokertracker, pokerace and datamining to get an edge on players, though they might not want to play with you if they knew you had their stats from 1000 hands. We use every edge we can get, and some will go further than others. Is purposefully talking trash and putting someone on tilt bad ethics? What if you knew they were prone to this? What if you knew that they had a gambling addiction and needed help? We constantly cross gray areas where there is no clear right or wrong, so I don't draw those lines. I come to the conclusion when I get there. So again "its not an easy choice."

[ QUOTE ]
You (or maybe not you) and others have no problem using pokertracker, pokerace and datamining to get an edge on players, though they might not want to play with you if they knew you had their stats from 1000 hands. We use every edge we can get, and some will go further than others. Is purposefully talking trash and putting someone on tilt bad ethics? What if you knew they were prone to this? What if you knew that they had a gambling addiction and needed help? We constantly cross gray areas where there is no clear right or wrong, so I don't draw those lines. I come to the conclusion when I get there. So again "its not an easy choice."

[/ QUOTE ]

Thing is, the tactics you described are all within the rules of poker, whether or not they are an ethically gray area. Taking a pot when you don't have the high hand is not gray at all.

If I accidentally leave a store without paying for an item, I may not always go back and return the item. But I do know it is wrong and I don't try to rationalize my choice.

Maybe I am explaining too much. I do not have a need to rationalize the choice. My opponent makes a mistake to my advantage. Thats it. Decision over if this is enough money. Some people don't do it because "karma is a bitch". Some don't do it because "its not right". I do it, hardly makes me a bad person. Just one that you might not want to push your chips toward if you may have won.

[tonypaladino]

Kinky,

Stop being such a moron.

Tony