99

QTip · #1 11-12-2005, 03:31 PM

Unknowns except I just learned that the Button is a poster.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Klompy · #2 11-12-2005, 03:40 PM

maybe i'm missing something, but why the three bet on the flop?

Yako · #3 11-12-2005, 03:41 PM

Yeah, that was me!
For what it's worth, I thought you played it great. There's a huge chance that I'm on a draw, and if I am, then I'm not calling the river, so that's a good check there. And I definitely can't feel comfortable bluff betting the river here after the strength you showed on the flop.

Oh, and if I'm not on a draw, then I have a T, in which case I'm calling the river because I split with any other T, and you lose a bet when I do call.

Yako · #4 11-12-2005, 03:47 PM

Klompy, QTip 3bet on the flop because it is REALLY likely that I'm raising a draw. After all, even if I am, I have an overcard, and the other guy might have an overcard. QTip wants to maintain the init. in the hand, and at the same time, the pot is getting big, so he really wants the other to fold to the 3bet.

Qtip, out of curiosity, why didn't you raise PF?

QTip · #5 11-12-2005, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Qtip, out of curiosity, why didn't you raise PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just hate doing that when it will be 4 handed and I'm going to be oop for the hand.

I'd rather save the bet use it to bet a lot of flops that probably missed people.

That's me, though. I'm listening if someone disagrees.

peterchi · #6 11-12-2005, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Qtip, out of curiosity, why didn't you raise PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just hate doing that when it will be 4 handed and I'm going to be oop for the hand.

I'd rather save the bet use it to bet a lot of flops that probably missed people.

That's me, though. I'm listening if someone disagrees.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's close, but I would raise pre-flop.

Since everyone has shown weakness by limping, your hand is likely to be miles away better than the other three. So despite the fact that we might not like a lot of flops, I think we wanna pump it now while our equity is high. And we can still bet most flops.

QTip · #7 11-12-2005, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Qtip, out of curiosity, why didn't you raise PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just hate doing that when it will be 4 handed and I'm going to be oop for the hand.

I'd rather save the bet use it to bet a lot of flops that probably missed people.

That's me, though. I'm listening if someone disagrees.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's close, but I would raise pre-flop.

Since everyone has shown weakness by limping, your hand is likely to be miles away better than the other three. So despite the fact that we might not like a lot of flops, I think we wanna pump it now while our equity is high. And we can still bet most flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

To say we're "miles" ahead is an overstatement imo. I'm guessing we'd average around 28%-32% equity here, course that's just considering showdown value and discounts the value of initiative.

Of course, we can always raise PF and check on the flop, but I find I have a difficult time doing that. For example, if the flop comes like AJ2r, I find myself always wanting to try to represent the A and taking a shot at the pot. Next think you know only 1 donk calls, and I want to fire again [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So, I'm sure I do have an equity edge when I'm just putting in 25% of the money here PF (although the edge probably isn't that large), but at the same time I hate being OOP and there are a lot of flops that I don't want to see. Perhaps this is weak thinking.

I guess I'm thinking that pumping this small edge now might hurt me more if I don't play exetremely well after the flop, and I often have a hard time handling myself well with the initiative being oop against a field this size.

TomBrooks · #8 11-12-2005, 04:41 PM

FLOP:
I like to check because if you bet and get raised I can't tell if it represents a ten, a flush draw, or a straight draw. (If it represents an eight were in really bad shape.)

I'd probably just call and see what happens on the turn.

Just checking allows you to fold if it comes back two to you at any time, also.

Sarge85 · #9 11-12-2005, 04:52 PM

I probably just check-fold or check-raise the flop. - I really don't like leading out here. A flush draw probably isn't going to raise here much of the time knowing that they could face a three bet from someone potentially holding an 8.

Another line (though less desirable, and much more player dependent) is to CR the turn when a card over Ten falls. You represent either the 8, or a higher pair. Totally player dependent

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

peterchi · #10 11-12-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Qtip, out of curiosity, why didn't you raise PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just hate doing that when it will be 4 handed and I'm going to be oop for the hand.

I'd rather save the bet use it to bet a lot of flops that probably missed people.

That's me, though. I'm listening if someone disagrees.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's close, but I would raise pre-flop.

Since everyone has shown weakness by limping, your hand is likely to be miles away better than the other three. So despite the fact that we might not like a lot of flops, I think we wanna pump it now while our equity is high. And we can still bet most flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

To say we're "miles" ahead is an overstatement imo. I'm guessing we'd average around 28%-32% equity here, course that's just considering showdown value and discounts the value of initiative.

Of course, we can always raise PF and check on the flop, but I find I have a difficult time doing that. For example, if the flop comes like AJ2r, I find myself always wanting to try to represent the A and taking a shot at the pot. Next think you know only 1 donk calls, and I want to fire again [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So, I'm sure I do have an equity edge when I'm just putting in 25% of the money here PF (although the edge probably isn't that large), but at the same time I hate being OOP and there are a lot of flops that I don't want to see. Perhaps this is weak thinking.

I guess I'm thinking that pumping this small edge now might hurt me more if I don't play exetremely well after the flop, and I often have a hard time handling myself well with the initiative being oop against a field this size.

[/ QUOTE ]
Haha, yeah, I felt kinda funny right after typing "miles," especially since I didn't really do the math. But I decided not to go back and delete it, the same way that I don't go back and delete the word "retards" when refering to villains even though they probably aren't actually mentally challenged heh.

And I agree that a big factor would be what you're gonna do post-flop. But Owen I don't think you need to doubt your postflop skills as to whether or not you could handle a juiced pot OOP. Cuz I think you're better than I am, and I don't doubt mine haha.