early JJ hand

schwza · #1 06-10-2005, 10:22 AM

~4th hand, so no reads. 30+3.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

Hero (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t740)
Button (t860)
SB (t770)
BB (t800)
UTG (t950)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t770)
MP1 (t710)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises to t60, 1 fold, Hero calls t60, MP3 calls t60, 4 folds, UTG calls t45.

Flop: (t265) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets t70, UTG+2 raises to t275, Hero ??

durron597 · #2 06-10-2005, 10:26 AM

I usually muck this. This hand is difficult because you didn't reraise preflop; I only call with Jacks if I expect to be out of position post flop.

You are against two opponents who have declared they like their hand and are out of position against another. Even if you are ahead here against both opponents you could still be up against a big draw and it's hard to tell the difference.

hansarnic · #3 06-10-2005, 10:45 AM

Easy fold. You're sometimes ahead of one of them. But very very rarely both.

Kristian · #4 06-10-2005, 10:50 AM

I think you have to fold it.
Which illustrates why you have to raise to isolate pre-flop, if you want to play it at all.

Sidekick · #5 06-10-2005, 10:56 AM

Tough hand. You are possibly the best hand at the moment, but you could also be close to drawing dead.

I think you have to fold this and wait for a better spot.

Jonathan · #6 06-10-2005, 10:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Easy fold. You're sometimes ahead of one of them. But very very rarely both.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur.

Although I disagree with the poster who said you should reraise preflop. The pot was already raised 4bb. I think the smooth call is OK.

Suerte,
Jonathan

schwza · #7 06-10-2005, 12:12 PM

i folded. it seemed pretty clear to me at the time, but afterwards i was noticing that it's pretty rare i dump an overpair without putting a chip in on the flop.

fwiw, the pfr had 56s for flopped 2 pr and utg had a9.

anyone else have comments on the pre-flop? i thought that was what was most interesting. i'd reraise QQ+ here, but probably call AK.

adanthar · #8 06-10-2005, 12:14 PM

I think this one's totally standard. Hope you put a note on the 65s guy.

durron597 · #9 06-10-2005, 12:24 PM

One other thing, I hate having pocket pairs multiway. Unless it's a situation where my plan is no-set, no-bet... which is certainly not the case with Jacks in position. Thus I think preflop is a clear raise. I probably make it 175.

gumpzilla · #10 06-10-2005, 12:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i folded. it seemed pretty clear to me at the time, but afterwards i was noticing that it's pretty rare i dump an overpair without putting a chip in on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, I suspect it's also pretty rare that the flop action comes bet-raise to you when there are three better overpairs than the one you're holding possible.

I think this is a pretty easy fold with no reads.