hand question...

unfrgvn · #1 10-18-2004, 04:09 PM

PP 10+1 Things have been going ok, open raising and getting folded to quite a bit. Don't think I've shown a hand down, I've either bet the flop or folded to a flop bet when called. Not doing this with pure garbage, have had some mid PP's, Ax, etc. Then this hand came up:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed)

CO (t760)
Hero (t1250)
SB (t500)
BB (t1590)
UTG (t830)
MP1 (t1640)
MP2 (t1430)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero raises to t150, SB folds, BB raises to t300

So whats your action, fold, call or reraise?

rjb03 · #2 10-18-2004, 04:23 PM

It depends on the player. A read here would be nice and you can act accordingly. What hands are going to reraise you that you can beat? It looks like he wants a call.

Jason Strasser · #3 10-18-2004, 04:25 PM

First of all, table image means practically nothing at this level. People are just not paying attention.

Secondly, you have a tough spot. The minimum raise is generally a big hand, but at this level it can really mean anything. This could be a small pair/Ax or a premium hand.

I think you should fold preflop though, even at this level, unless of course you have some sort of read on your opponent. If I thought something was crappy about him, I'd definitely call and see the flop. Otherwise I'd fold. The reason is that when you hit a flop, TPTK or a pair of aces, you can still lose, and that doesn't have to happen very often (in a theoretical sense) for your preflop call to be -EV. AJ is a commonly dominated hand by 'normal' players raises. So I think folding is a good option.

Of course, if this player sucks, call and take a flop. But you can't go wrong folding here.

-Jason

p.s. keep raising this hand preflop though in that spot, good raise

unfrgvn · #4 10-18-2004, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The minimum raise is generally a big hand, but at this level it can really mean anything. This could be a small pair/Ax or a premium hand.

I think you should fold preflop though, even at this level, unless of course you have some sort of read on your opponent. If I thought something was crappy about him, I'd definitely call and see the flop. Otherwise I'd fold. The reason is that when you hit a flop, TPTK or a pair of aces, you can still lose, and that doesn't have to happen very often (in a theoretical sense) for your preflop call to be -EV. AJ is a commonly dominated hand by 'normal' players raises. So I think folding is a good option.

Of course, if this player sucks, call and take a flop. But you can't go wrong folding here.

-Jason

p.s. keep raising this hand preflop though in that spot, good raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the replies. I think I posted this to punish myself, so I won't do anything this stupid again. Here was my thought process:
I had opened raised the hand before with A 10 and both blinds had folded. This thing played pretty tight once the first 2 maniacs were gone. My thought was the re-raise was a big stack BB tried of getting open raised. I did think that the BB maybe had small pocket pair, maybe a worse Ace. I just didn't stop to think the min raise was a big hand. Here's the gory details.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed)

CO (t760)
Hero (t1250)
SB (t500)
BB (t1590)
UTG (t830)
MP1 (t1640)
MP2 (t1430)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero raises to t150, SB folds, BB raises to t300, Hero calls t150.

Flop: (t625) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t700,
Aha, BB does have small pair and didn't like the Ace. Lets take this down right now.
BB raises to t1290 (All-In), Hero calls t250 (All-In).
Whoops. I'm stuck now, so I make the crying call.

Turn: (t2865) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t2865) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t2865
Main Pot: t2525 (t2525), between Hero and BB. > Pot won by BB (t2525).
Pot 2: t340 (t340), returned to BB.

Results in white below: 
BB has Ad Ah (three of a kind, aces).
Hero has As Jd (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins t2865. 

I had a read and I went with it! [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
Another thought running through my mind was that if I lay down to the pre flop raise I'm going to have a tough time getting anyone to respect my pre flop raises at times when I just want to pick up the blinds. Of course it was much tougher picking up the blinds once I was out. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

twankerr · #5 10-18-2004, 05:32 PM

Hmm, I like your play but I like his play even more. He probably put you on something A-10+ and figured you would bet the flop pretty hard.

One thing to look for at this level is how fast the raise comes in. If a raise comes in almost immediately, try and assume that they were going to raise no matter what and may not realize that they are in fact reraising. This can mean either they are on a straight steal or they are sitting on a monster they want to play fast. Knowing how your opponent played this monster though can be helpful later (if you made it out of the hand).

I am definately not against folding A-J to a re-raise here in this spot though. An open raise I would call and take the flop, figuring that most of the opponents at the 10+1 level will not have A-J dominated and will more than likely be an underdog, but the re-raise smells extremely weak or extremely strong.

what a meandering post [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
final thought : after your preflop call you made the right moves, but youll have to decide wether to keep playing AJ for a reraise or not.

mackthefork · #6 10-18-2004, 05:55 PM

Anyone else think AJo is one of the hardest hands to play from the button when you get played back at by the blinds?

I understand why you called but i would fold at any level as Jason suggested, unless he had pulled this lark on me before in which case i probably go over the top for all my chips, and lets the wind decide.

Regards Mack