What's the expected win rate for top player at multi-tables?

What's the expected win rate for top player at SNG 2-3 tables? More importantly, how about at larger multi-table tourneys? I see it expressed at 1.5-2 BB's for limit ring games, but what about as a % of initial entry fee for these formats?

[Exitonly]

MTT'ers use ROI% (Return On Investment) and ITM% (In the Money) for the important stats.

a good ITM% is aroundn 10-15%.. and ROI can be anywhere from 50% to 400% (or higher, but i'd say it won't stay over 400% over long term)

This is for real MTT's, not the 2-3 table SnG's..

[LethalRose]

for the 2-3 tables id say a good ITM is about 45%, ROI around 10%

Thanks for the response. Those MTT win rates north of 100% seem very strong. I just read something on variance and sample size in the SNG FAQ indicating you needed 500 tourneys for results to mean much. Are there many players running better than 100% ROI for over 500 MTT's?? I am just trying to compare to limit guidelines, which seem pretty well accepted at the 1.5-2BB level.

This seems to low to be worth playing them other than for practicing late tourney play. Is 10% really the standard ROI to shoot for? The FAQ on the single-tables indicated that 20-30% ROI was attainable? Seems the 2-3 tables would allow for a higher potential ROI.

[TomHimself]

i dont think lethal knows what he is talking about

[Exitonly]

ROI over 100% isn't all that hard for a winning MTT'er.. but thers a ton of variance. I've been keeping stats the past month..but i keep them seperate for the levels of buyin.

for Mini (1,2,3,5 buyins)
i have a 600% ROI, 13%ITM over 100 tournaments

for Mid's (10,20,30,50 buyins)
i have a 171% ROI, 14%ITM, over 200 tournaments

and for Big's (100+)
i have a 0% ROI, 0%ITM, over 30 tournaments [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

(duunno why i can't make a dent in any big ones. really frustrating)

Too bad those stats could not be reversed right? Guess it is not that easy. I am just surprised there is not more of a universally expected standard ROI, but I guess when you combine the variance, how much time it takes to reach the long-run, the variety of formats, field sizes, etc., it would be much harder to come up with. it is also still a relatively new phenomenon compared to decades of conventional wisdom on grinding at limit cash games.

[FakeKramer]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont think lethal knows what he is talking about

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed. Johnny [censored] Chan couldn't ITM 45% of the time in the 2-3 table tournies.

[TomHimself]

lol Im sure johhny chan caN, i think a 40%ITm is possible but I think a higher ROI should be there too and not just 10%