Cursing filter redux

[Kuso]

I've been away from the forums for a while (mostly a lurker) due to work, and I found out this cursing filter nonsense when I came back. The "bannings" resulting thereof are even more bizarro. Do poker players really expect Mr. Roger's Neighborhood in the forums? WTF? (Wait, will I be banned for that?)

I just have to say that I think this is a very poor policy decision. It seems to have driven into hiding two of the three or four posters who made this forum worth visiting.

Also, while I realize that this is not an O8 post, per se, I think that it is highly relevant to this forum, so that's why I am posting it here.

Is Draco in the house?

[beset7]

what bannings are you referring to? Only one poster has been banned and he has been allowed back. Plus, the profanity filter has always been in effect. And, only one poster that I know of has left and all he was chastised for was posting thinly veiled spam.

You would have to work really hard it to get banned at least by me.

What you will see a lot more of is posts being moved to different forums if that's where they belong.

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It seems to have driven into hiding two of the three or four posters who made this forum worth visiting.

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Names?

[Kuso]

The 3-day and permanent ban in this thread are the bannings I referred to:

Cursing Filter thread

This is as bizarro as The Mouth F-bomb episode at the WSOP this year -- why the F bother? (Did I just circumvent the filter there?)

This post also mentions policies on inserting characters in the middle of words in order to circumvent the language filter. Who cares? If a post is malicious, it's malicious with or without foul language and appropriate action should be taken. I don't see what difference the language makes. A foul language filter is quite silly in and of itself, imho. It's not protecting anybody -- foul language is pervasive on TV and IRL (even in elementary schools) -- and the implementation is just awkward.

Moving posts is fine and good modding -- no issues with that.

As for the names, it seems like WM and Ribbo are posting a lot less often (even including WM's "other" ID). The banter between these guys and other posters who are still around (e.g., Gergery, etc.) is priceless -- they push each other and have enough knowledge of the game to provide and back up alternative viewpoints (even if you don't always agree with them). Now that two outspoken voices are gone or are laying low, the foils needed to produce good debate are lacking.

Just my 2 cents...

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]

Just my 2 cents...

[/ QUOTE ]

WM = FatBallz = Posting quite a bit.

Ribbo. I wish he'd post.

<u>The Cursing Filter Thread</u>

The reality is that this site is an advertising vehicle for 2+2 publishing. I could wax eloquent on this for a while but it'd be boring. The profanity filter has always been around they just added a bunch of words to it that weren't included in it before. All that we ask is that people type their posts exactly as they want to and let the filter do its job. Easy enough? When people see you say to me, "go [censored] yourself you [censored] [censored]", they'll get the idea. Is that really such a big [censored] deal? I mean, what the [censored] fascination with making sure everybody knows which curse word you were trying to use?

I'm a libertarian borderline anarcho-capitalist. I don't like censorship, paternalism, intrusion into people's personal choices, etc. But this is a privately owned and operated, for-profit, commercial forum, not the usenet. 2+2 has the right to run this place in whatever way they think is going to maximize the profitability of their business interests and I can't help but respect that.

I appreciate your $0.02. Also, I was originally going to move this post to the new "forum suggestions" forum. But, since some of this is specific to what happened a while ago in this forum I'll leave it here. But, if you want to engage in a more detailed discussion of these issues that's the forum for it.

Take care.

[Kuso]

thanks for your reply.

fwiw, i know what WM's other name is... he's posting much less than before. much less.

also, while i respect your comments about the private ownership of the site, i find the owners' policies on foul language to be pedantic. nothing more, nothing less. i think their policies will likely lead to a lower quality of posts and posters in the forums and ultimately less money. they've already made a tragic error with the crippled search function, this is error number 2 (at least)... what's next?

also, thank you for keeping this thread in the O8 forum.

anyway, i'm not hatin' on you, beset... just the policies. please take my comments accordingly.

[beset7]

Thanks for the disclaimer but I never felt like you were hatin' on the mods in particular. I also appreciate your posts.

About wintermute, ribbo and gregery not posting as much, I have mixed feelings about this. For those of you who don't know, I was asked to moderate this forum by felicialee because I was moderating the Omaha High forum and she knew that I used to post Omaha/8 hands in "Other Poker" before there was an Omaha/8 forum. Most of you, with the exception of buzz and gregery probably, didn't read 2+2 then. PLO8b discussion was entirely held in Pot-Limit Omaha back then.

I can think of about five or six solid limit omaha8 posters who stopped posting when the tone of this forum changed this year. I also felt that PLO8b would be better discussed int he pot-limit forum. But, I've been around BBS's, usenet and internet forums for a number of years now. People are always talking about how things have gone "downhill." There is something about the medium that encourages this type of thinking. I'm not sure it's always inauthentic, but I've become instrinsically skeptical of it. Things change a lot in short periods of time, that's all. Posters lose interest. Dominant alpha type personalities run off the more skitish, sensitive types; some people just aren't all that into educating people or having theoretical discussions. Whatever the case may be, to everything there is a season.

[ QUOTE ]
i find the owners' policies on foul language to be pedantic. nothing more, nothing less. i think their policies will likely lead to a lower quality of posts and posters in the forums and ultimately less money. they've already made a tragic error with the crippled search function, this is error number 2 (at least)... what's next?

[/ QUOTE ]

My question may be a little off-topic, but I was wondering if you could clarify for me why a no-profanity policy lowers the quality of posts and is bad for business. It's not that I entirely disagree I'm just curious. If it's really important to people to be able to curse without being censored I could see them going to another forum or the usenet but I just don't think it's that important to most people.

Also, people use acronyms for curse words and circumvent that profanity filter inadvertently all the time and nothing is done about it. It's just when people are going out of their way to do it repeatedly or posting pornographic images, etc, that the moderators are supposed to step in.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]


My question may be a little off-topic, but I was wondering if you could clarify for me why a no-profanity policy lowers the quality of posts and is bad for business.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never understood people who rationalize the use of profanity on a forum with "Well, it's the Internet" or "We have all heard it before" or "We are all adults here".

If we are all adults here, why can't we act like it and show each other some respect and courtesy? Mature people are capable of conversing without profanity. Why would anyone have difficulty discussing poker strategy without using profanity? You don't swear in the house of someone who finds it objectionable. Why can't we extend the same courtesy to those who host this forum?

I certainly don't see how anyone is being even inconvenienced, let alone harmed or repressed, by not being able to use profanity. But a lot of people certainly act like it.

I am a firm believer that censorship on any level is bad. IMO, if the owners of 2+2 offer grounds for public discussion, then they should understand that people are people and that the language you see in day to day activities and events will show up just the same in internet discussions.

I can appreciate that some people do not like to be subjected to certain language, but I don't feel that this is the opinion of the majority.

I dont walk into a place of business and start saying how the ____ you doing today you mother ________. But, at the poker table I might say well i'll be a _____ look at that ____.


I go back to my original statement.

ANY AND ALL CENSORSHIP IS BAD&lt;




Tex

[Kuso]

thank you for all of your replies.

i am going to PM Beset with my reply to his questions. I think this thread is rapidly moving towards "free speech" type of content. as I don't want the thread to be moved to "forum suggestions" or some other such place, i would appreciate it if we could limit the discussion to the impact that the policies have had on the O8 forum in particular.

please feel free to start other related threads that are not O8-specific in the appropriate forum(s). personally, i've said most of what i want to say and will move forward via PMs.

thanks again.