Flopped nuts. Train wreck ensues.

mowz · #1 11-14-2005, 06:17 PM

It is an ugly, loathsome hand yet I cannot fold away. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Reads:
UTG+2 46/6/.46 over 54 hands
MP1 54/10/1.16 over 54 hands
MP3 50/13/1 over 53 hands
SB 31/7/1.34 over 350 hands
BB 17/10/2.6 over 150 hands

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

River: (20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

brettbrettr · #2 11-14-2005, 06:19 PM

I"m getting jiggy on the flop here, like, all the time.

If anything, in my case I should have cold called then gotten jiggy on the turn. IN your case, once the guy cold calls before you act, I see no reason not to three bet. In retrospect, I should have slowplayed this flop, I think.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, CO calls $31.50 (All-In), Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls.

River: (20.47 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 22.47 BB

jason_t · #3 11-14-2005, 06:20 PM

3-bet the flop.

uw_madtown · #4 11-14-2005, 06:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

hobbsmann · #5 11-14-2005, 06:23 PM

Slow playing this flop sucks. Enough people clearly like their hands enough that you are missing out on way too much value by getting sneaky here. Also, don't worry about facing sb and bb with 3 cold as if they were going to call two cold they will probably also call 3 cold.

mowz · #6 11-14-2005, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, don't worry about facing sb and bb with 3 cold as if they were going to call two cold they will probably also call 3 cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the only reason I would slowplay. I figure if I can get a reraise on the turn, they will have to think a lot harder about how much they like their draws with one card to come. I'm not trying to get sneaky, rubbing my hands together all Mr. Burns style, I'm thinking about how to win this since there are 69 ways I can get 69ed by the end.

Bret how is your hand different than mine?

#7 11-14-2005, 06:29 PM

Hi mowz-

I know you're probably looking for a verbal beating to dissuade you from doing this. I don't have the heart to berate you; we all want to make sure SB, BB and UTG+1 stay in this hand.

But you need to 3-bet the flop. Consider: 5 cards can put a better straight on the board. 8 cards can pair the board. 9 cards can put the flush on the board. And two cards (T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) are complete nightmares. I count 22 cards that potentially dry up your ability to raise indefinitely. Raise the flop, while you still can.

I'm fine with the rest of the hand. MP1 sure is saying he's got a monster - either that or he's got nothing; he was the last person to put in a raise on the flop yet he thinks a c/r on the turn is going to work? After getting raised I call down and expect to be good at least 10 percent of the time here. If the river doesn't come out a club I'm tempted to raise/fold, but that might be incorrect.

brettbrettr · #8 11-14-2005, 06:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bred how is your hand different than mine?

[/ QUOTE ]

from me to callmedonnie:

[ QUOTE ]
brettbrettr: slowplaying his hand on thatb board after people have cold called sucks
brettbrettr: in my hand, you could argue with not 3bettting becasue I'm facing people with three cold
brettbrettr: but on his, he's facing one player with 2 bets, and two with one

[/ QUOTE ]

#9 11-14-2005, 06:31 PM

In the second hand, there's no need to worry about a higher straight being put out there.

hobbsmann · #10 11-14-2005, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, don't worry about facing sb and bb with 3 cold as if they were going to call two cold they will probably also call 3 cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the only reason I would slowplay. I figure if I can get a reraise on the turn, they will have to think a lot harder about how much they like their draws with one card to come. I'm not trying to get sneaky, rubbing my hands together all Mr. Burns style, I'm thinking about how to win this since there are 69 ways I can get 69ed by the end.

Bret how is your hand different than mine?

[/ QUOTE ]
flush draws are never folding at any point on the flop or turn. Everything doesn't have to be about protecting your hand there is a thing called value betting and a great example of it would be if you 3-bet this flop.