revisiting old post

[Slim Pickens]

It is a mistake to call if the opponent is tight.

[citanul]

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play for money, meaning CALL.

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FYP

"Playing for first" is just such awful reasoning it makes me want to kick puppies.

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fu, i like puppies.

it makes me want to kick cute little bunnies.

citanul

[curtains]

Ok first of all this is a very easy call. SNGPT has it as like +1.3% EV (A ridiculously huge amount considering how high my EV already is) assuming that the hand my opponent pushed is the absolute worst hand he would ever push. Now we can assume he might even push weaker hands, but who knows.

To make a long story short, folding is ridiculous. The math can prove it, no amount of abstract future game situations should make up for this.

Also I was much weaker player then so forgive the few stupid things I say. I had only instinct, not math, to back me up then.

Here is the link:

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...;o=&fpart=



Also note that from a theoretical standpoint (ie all opponents play perfectly, and you are shooting for the highest EV for this hand), I believe that the SB should push somewhere around 55% of hands, whereas the BB should call about 27%. Forgive me I did those numbers last night, and they may be off by a few % points.

[Fatdogs12]

Even if I knew for a fact that he was pushing KQs, I would still call. You are still ahead, you got him covered, and the blinds are insane. What else is there?

[1C5]

nice call.

Call because pot's big and his range is wide.

[schwza]

wow, what a crazy thread. some gems, and by "gems" i mean "flaming piles of crap":

gigabet:
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Who cares if they take your blind? You have 5k in chips and alot more long term fold equity than they do. So why not use as much of it as possible and trim their stacks down as low as they will allow them to go. Which is what will happen, because your blind will not be stolen every single time, but you can steal theirs forever.

[/ QUOTE ]

dali:
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You all fail to realize that very often in this situation, the SB is ONLY pushing with very strong hands since the other stack is so short, i.e. AK, AQ, AJs, 88-AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yeah, SB probably folds AJ or 77 there. if his connection died.

this is itm. payouts are 2/3/5, not 2/4/5. there is not a lot of incentive to avoid going out in 3rd.

both of their arguments are totally dependent on rojo's "playing tight." curtains said they were 6-handed ~3 hands ago. maybe this guy's gonna open up his game a little? dali's range for SB made me want to vomit.

edit to add: i forgot the other thing that makes me want to vomit is that no one responded to the point that the BB only has ~1350 left, and will post 500 in the blind NEXT HAND. this mythical 3-handed bubble where curtains can rob everybody blind (haha) is not going to happen.

[kevkev60614]

This is so awesome. I was just reading the old thread (I'm going through The Shadow's first post links) and now I get to read the update.

Looks quite different this time around. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I wonder if Gigabet and Daliman have changed their mind? Oh and in my completely worthless opinion i think curtains is a better sng player and more logical thinker than both giga and dali

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok first of all this is a very easy call. SNGPT has it as like +1.3% EV (A ridiculously huge amount considering how high my EV already is) assuming that the hand my opponent pushed is the absolute worst hand he would ever push. Now we can assume he might even push weaker hands, but who knows.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you can invent SNGPT ranges where folding is correct, but unless you had some very odd read, you'd be wrong to put any "normal" opponent on a range that tight.

For the record, I like puppies, but people justifying decisions on the basis of "playing for first" just really pisses me off, enough that I might do something like kick a puppy. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] I would then regret kicking the puppy.