22's vs 11's Someone who can actually tell the difference?

I've been multitabling 11's (over 1000) with a good deal of success and I'm moving to the 22's. By most good poker players standards the play is not very good at either buy in level, but I think there's a noticeable difference in skill between the two. late game play is bad at both, but I notice a lot more people playing tight and the push/fold game becomes a lot different with more people with smallish stacks involved. What are the thoughts on the jump (ok we'll call it a light hop) to the 22's. I've gotten into bad habits of trying cute crap that works out at the 11's but I fear it won't work here.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[SCfuji]

as long as losing a few buyins wont make you panic you should be fine. plenty of people willing to give you all their chips in the first few levels.

[stanzee]

In the daytime games there is a noticeable difference between the 10s and 20s. Evenings, there isn't a great deal of difference. Both very low standard in the evenings. I notice you mentioned about getting into habits of cute traps in the 10s. I was the same but you will find that certain "moves" don't work in the 20s, but you'll find other ways of picking up easy chips as 75% of 22ers play very similarly. This is part of the reason i have been able to maintain a 30% ROI at this level.

Stanzee [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[SCfuji]

the biggest difference is that as you move up the preflop play will improve slightly. if you move up stakes little by little like most of us, it is difficult to notice this.

[ QUOTE ]
75% of 22ers play very similarly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have noticed this and think this will be a benefit to me once I get out of my bad habits of trapping people with top pair good kicker and actually start putting predictable opponents on hands.

I've noticed my premiums aren't getting paid off in the early levels. Which I think is caused by the fact that $11ers will go all-in early with low pairs. This doesn't seem to happen at the 22s.

I'm in the same boat as you recondite, trying to make the transition.

[brimstone1]

I'd like to hear some thoughts on the issue as well.

Most of the time all I hear is "there is absolutely no difference between 11s/22s, they are both horrible! full of donks!"

Yet, every time I try to move up, I get my ass kicked.

My personal views after about 500 of them:

First of all, almost everybody playing the 22s defends against continuation bets.
Of course, you can exploit this, but when you can't get any c-bets to work, it doesn't really pay off well.

Although the end game is still fairly bad (a lot of level 4,5 limping, etc). People seem to be making a lot of really weird calls that end up hurting you (the kind where its +EV for him to fold (at least not -EV), and +EV for you if he folds, but when he actually calls it makes both players worse off?)

BTW, there was some discussion on that topic a week ago or so, maybe someone remembers where it is?

[SCfuji]

dont continuation bet as much on the flop and use those chips for the turn. most of the time two checks means air and a flop check, then turn bet means that they wanted money to go in on the flop or they are just donkeys that bluff but thats the minority case.

yes there are tons of spite calls. its something to be expected and accepted when a lot of our play comes from bubble pushing.

Yes! This stuff is gold guys, keep up the info.

[brimstone1]

edit: I've decided that theres basically no point to what I said here. move on.