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  #1  
Old 12-26-2005, 02:48 PM
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Default Overcard Delema

Pacific Poker .25/.5

Hero is UTG with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Lots of calling, not much raising, everyone seems pretty passive.

Preflop: (8 players)
Hero raises, 7 callers including CO, SB, and BB.
(I was thinking..well KQo is good enough to play, open limping is bad, so
I should raise. I'm thinking now that maybe this is too aggressive, everyone
called me anyway. A raise here is to limit the field right? So I should have realized that things were going south at this point?)

Flop [4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]](8 players)

The blinds check
(I'm thinking here, I have 2 overcards; did this flop hit anybody? I chicken
out and check) everyone checks to MP3 who bets. Everyone calls except
for UTG+1. The pot is big, I'm thinking I have to call.

Turn[J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] (7 players)

Everyone checks to MP3 who bets, everyone calls. (The pot is enormous.)

River[3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]](7 players)

Everyone checks to MP1 who bets, folds to MP3 who calls, folds to CO who
calls, folds to hero who folds.

I'm spewing here right?
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:14 PM
marchron marchron is offline
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Default Re: Overcard Delema

Flop good. You're getting outrageous odds.

Turn bad. The odds are cut in half and you only have overcards. Though unlikely, you could be reverse-dominated.
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2005, 04:11 PM
cold_cash cold_cash is offline
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Default Re: Overcard Delema

Put the pot size out there on each street, you'll get more responses.
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2005, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Overcard Delema

Pretty coordinated flop. Id probably call the flop and evaluate on the turn.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2005, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Overcard Delema

grunch....(assuming this is not some attempt at a fancy play)
Skip the Pf raise with KQo on a passive table. Your advantage is very slim here and most people will call you anyhow(any A, suited connectors,etc) so I limp. Leaving it for someone else to raise gives you a better idea of where you are. KQs is different story with a lot of loose callers.

Other thatn that, I think you played it Ok for how you started
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:13 PM
silkyslim silkyslim is offline
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Default Re: Overcard Delema

gotta raise pf, this is standard. 7 callers wow, good game. anyway, betting does little to nothing on the flop. Even raising is futile. so just call and hope to hit TP on the turn and think of a way to protect your hand. Nice fold on the river [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Overcard Delema

First post ever! Hi, everybody.

So, preflop you are OK. Assuming the .25/.50 is very loose, you might be facing something like four 40's, so you will have a significant equity edge. If we guess 40, 40, 90, 8, you still have 20% more equity than your share. If your game is that loose, you can PFR liberally, since opponent hand selection is not such a problem. Just remember to not get tied to coordinated flops.

The flop may be fine. You've got 16+ SB in, 20 I think, and the flop is so multiway that you should discount your overcard outs to say 4, or perhaps 3. So you have over the requisite 12 to 1 to call under a 4-out evaluation, and over the 16 to 1 to call under a 3 out evaluation.

The turn has a blank for you, so you can take a similar stance as on the flop, but with different odds. 16.5 BB are in the pot? Our odd are a bit tighter now, making you a dog under a 3-out evaluation, taking rake into account. Whether to use the 3 or 4 out evaluation depends on how you think MP3 will bet. If he represents the table's passive style, he might only bet out the flop with 2pair, set, or top pair (its also possible he flopped a straight). The probability that he has just a pair or high card (the only hand you can beat with your outs) depends on his willingness to bet, given that he has bet.

The river is a fold.

Hope this doesn't stink!!
Word.
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:39 PM
Schwartzy61 Schwartzy61 is offline
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Default Re: Overcard Delema

*Grunch

You missed spelled dilemma, so I couldn't answer whatever question you had...
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2005, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Overcard Dilemma

Preflop:
I don't like raising in EP with KQo, KQs is fine.

Flop:
Even with the coordinated board, being the PF raiser you should bet out on the flop and test the waters. Call a raise 1-bet to you, fold if some reraises somewhere down the line.

Turn:
Check/Fold unimproved. You're most likely beat by now, even though you're still getting pot odds to call for your overcard draw, you could be reverse dominated here by QJ, KJ, and maybe the unlikely Q4, Q2, Q5, K2, K4, K5. Your draw is also very weak, even if you do spike your Q or K, you're still behind a straight, set, and 2-pair.
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2005, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Overcard Dilemma

I'm an inganeer....we're not supposed to be able to spell!!!

jim

PS: As usual, great comments. Thanks loads! I'm learning a lot here....just
need to apply it more.
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