Quitting Your Job Articles

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

I'm actually somewhat concerned about the articles on "Quitting Your Day Job" that Dr. Alan Schoonmaker is writing. I think there are several major points that he's missing, and I find the articles in direct contrast to my view of playing poker very seriously, as well as being way too pessimistic and downright depressing.

I think the way to explain this is to look at my history. From 1982 to 1987 I was working as a mathematician/statistician for the Northrop Corporation. My specialty was probability theory and by most standards I had a terrific job and was doing well in the company. My pay in 1986 was right at $50,000 a year which was a lot for that time frame, and I had been told that very soon the company would be moving me into management. But the next year I quit my job to play poker even though my superiors encouraged me to stay on.

Much of my motivation for leaving was not that I would make more money playing poker. In fact, my original plan was to play small limits and move to Las Vegas where the cost of living was about half of Los Angeles.

But there was one other thing that would be very different. I would now enjoy my life and have the freedom that I wanted. Yes there was risk involved in what I planned. But it was a risk I wanted to take, and if things didn't work out, I would face that fact that when the time came.

I suspect that many people who try to turn pro have similar motivations. They are simply looking for a better life, one they might enjoy. If it means they make less money, drive an old car, and don't live in a fancy house, then that's fine. This is exactly what happened to me and I wouldn't have traded it for anything.

I believe that many of the problems that Dr. Al talks about won't happen as long as you make the effort to have a good understanding of the game. Yes there are some degenerates around the poker rooms, and we all know a few of them. But most of these people would be just as pathetic if poker didn't exist and there's no need to focus on them.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Gabe DV]

As someone who took a job that pays less for a better quality of life (Not a poker player) i agree wholeheartedly with Mason's thoughts here. Sometimes it is ok to drive an old car but enjoy your day-to-day life. great post.

[BarronVangorToth]

Very true. I was at University on the path to being an actuary ... and then I decided that I didn't want to sit in an office for 80+ hours a week, despite the fact that I had offers coming in for six figures once I completed my study.

And while I might have made a little more money in the last decade if I had gone the actuarial route, I wouldn't have the freedom that I have today, nor would I have done what I've done.

Agreed. Great post, Mason.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Two roads diverged in a wood
And I took the one less traveled by
And that has made all the difference
- Robert Frost

[Ghazban]

Since people are telling their stories here, might as well add mine...

I triple majored in college in honors math, engineering, and music and graduated summa cum laude in all three. I went to grad school for music and currently hold a part time day job and make the rest of my money on gigs (and poker, but that's mostly just bankroll building, not spendable income). I absolutely could've made more in a math/science/engineering field and I turned down a number of lucrative offers after finishing my undergraduate work. I don't regret going into music for a second despite the fact that money is a little tight much of the time.

The utility of the extra money I'd make as an engineer is worth far less than the utility of the pleasure of doing something I feel passionate about (music).

[BeerMoney]

Nice post..

I haven't read al's post, but it sounds like he's the same person who recommend's pro athletes get their college degree instead of making millions playing pro ball.

"Go to college, be miserable in class, get undervalued.. Why make millions and f*ck a bunch of groupies?"

[imported_bingobazza]

[ QUOTE ]


The utility of the extra money I'd make as an engineer is worth far less than the utility of the pleasure of doing something I feel passionate about (music).

[/ QUOTE ]

The utility of the extra money is the key. There came a point in my life when money wasnt as precious as the extra time. But look at the extra money and the extra free time that poker gives you? I closed my own firm, under a blue chip UK investment broking firm, I was pulling in close to $200,000 most years...but, to quote Gerry Maguire...'I hated my place in the world' and felt that poker could give me the time and freedom to do as I pleased without staff and hassles of work and clients. Of the $200k I grossed, I probably only banked after work related expenses like suits, phone bills, driving, entertaining and taxes about $8,000 a month. Thats $64 an hour over 125 hours of poker per month, compared to 300 hours at work and constant bloody exams...wheres the hard decision in that? Im glad I did it.

Great post.

Bingobazza

[BluffTHIS!]

Mason,

I am very glad to see you make this post, as I too have always felt that Dr. Al was way too pessimistic about people being able to make it as a pro. I have played full-time for several years now and almost exclusively online these days. Once a player has the technical skills, knowledge and experience to beat various games at various limits, then what separates those who make it from those who don't are two things. The first of course is a lack of degenerate non-poker leaks. And the second is properly managing your bankroll, especially during a downswing. I have watched many otherwise good players who probably started playing somewhat badly, and although properly bankrolled for the limit they were playing, ride that downswing all the way to the bitter end without ever dropping down in stakes or taking time off to reevaluate their own game as well as the game conditions which might have changed significantly without their adjusting. Ray Zee has posted extensively about these things over the years here and spending some time in the archives is highly recommended to everyone who needs to read about such things.

All of this does indeed require a lot of psychological fortitude to make it long term, but that is true in many other fields as well, which is why I think Dr. Al's pessimism about going pro is overstated.

[rigoletto]

Hi Mason

[ QUOTE ]
Yes there was risk involved in what I planned. But it was a risk I wanted to take, and if things didn't work out, I would face that fact that when the time came.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to know those risks to make an informed decision and I think Dr. Al is doing a great job of informing us!

[PokerHorse]

Mason,I think you are a very good author and publisher and probably a decent player, but you were playing 25 draw in LA and had authored a book or two before you left for Vegas.
i'm sure you moved because of the lower overhead but also to start your publishing business. Are you saying that you derived most of your income from playing, because, although I'm sure you are a good player I'm guessing the majority of your income was from the books. The reason I'm stating this is because you have almost never completely derived all of your income from playing, and you should not make this implication. Even if most was from poker at one point and less was from the books, it is still not the same as being a poker pro.

[gergery]

I think Dr. Al’s articles are a bit overly pessimistic and a bit depressing too. But that’s a good thing, as it is wayyy to easy to over-estimate the difficulties, risks, and longer-term things you give up vs other career fields by embarking at a relatively young age towards a pro poker career.

You need someone sounding the Gong of Doom to put a little fear into people, if for no other reason that to make sure that when they still do go pro they’ve really thought it thru.

We all naturally draw on our own experiences for advice, and Dr. Al has presumably seen much more of the downside of pro poker than most, and Mason has definitely experienced more of the upside of a career in poker than most.

--greg