What could I do?

blackaces13 · #1 06-24-2004, 07:19 PM

As soon as I saw the flop I was looking for a cheap showdown.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 4 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks,

Flop: (4.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB
Main Pot: 7.75 BB, between CO and Hero. > Pot won by CO (7.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Th As (one pair, aces).
CO shows 7c Tc (flush, ace high).
Outcome: CO wins 7.75 BB.

Xiphoid · #2 06-24-2004, 07:22 PM

Check-raise the flop, you might have found out then. You have to play the flop more aggresively with top pair here, preferably check-raising or betting as a second option.

He flopped a flush, not much you can do but pay off here.

blackaces13 · #3 06-24-2004, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raise the flop, you might have found out then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if I understand this. What am I going to do, fold the flop for a 3-bet? No, I'm calling this down unless another scare card hits so why not just try to get there as cheaply as possible?

Xiphoid · #4 06-24-2004, 07:54 PM

I didn't mean fold... you should definitely call down here. My main point was that you should play the flop more aggressively. Oftentimes, your opponent will not flop his or her flush and you will be ahead.

eric5148 · #5 06-24-2004, 07:55 PM

I agree with the check/raise on the flop. If he 3-bets, you're probably beat, and you should fold or check/call it down. If he calls, he's on a draw, and you'll see the turn, and possibly river, for free.

blackaces13 · #6 06-24-2004, 08:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he calls, he's on a draw, and you'll see the turn, and possibly river, for free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and if I call and he's the type of player to check the turn with draws then I still see the turn and river for free. I don't think "free cards" are exactly good for me at this point anyway, I'm the one with top pair. I think I should have either led the turn or CRed it but didn't have the cojones for it.

The reason I don't like raising the flop is that I (personally) can't fold and I don't even think that I win this hand more than my fair share here. The only thing keeping me in the hand is the 5 bets in the pot. If hypothetically we all saw this flop for free and there was no pot on the flop I'd check/fold it.

After I wait for the turn and its benign I could have gone ahead and raised but I just wanted the hand to be over which is bad.

eric5148 · #7 06-24-2004, 08:17 PM

I got the impression that you were going to call down anyway, so that's were the free cards would help.

Oh well, whatever. Come play the 2+2 table!

detruncate · #8 06-25-2004, 02:25 AM

When this flop comes down, the first thing that goes through my mind is, "Sweet. Top pair good kicker and 1 of 4 Js for the big straight." The second thing that goes through my mind is, "Drag about the flush. Let's see if he has it." I raise this flop for sure. If he 3 bets, I might think about capping and seeing if he bets out on the turn... though I also think about dropping, and it would depend on what sort of player he is.

The thing is, calling down doesn't seem to make much sense. The final pot was 5.75BB, and you put 2 1/2 of them into it. Sure, you don't have any way of knowing how big it's going to end up, but the action required to make it bigger wouldn't bode well for your chances. If you're behind to the flush you're not catching up barring a miracle runner runner boat or quads, so either play it like it has a chance or eject. By calling down on the turn and beyond, you're saying that your hand will be good almost once in three times (2BB to try to win a 5.7BB final pot)... but by not raising, you're saying that you don't think you have a chance unless he's bluffing or on an ace with a weaker kicker. So you have to ask yourself if it's a good time to run down his bluff. I think I'd wait for a better opportunity.

tech · #9 06-25-2004, 02:45 AM

Anybody besides me bet the flop?

detruncate · #10 06-25-2004, 03:16 AM

I'm never one to miss an opportunity to bet out, but I'm not so sure it's the best play here. I don't like the possibility of giving a free card to a 4-flush, but the pot is small and I don't mind dropping so much if I don't like the turn. Then again, I'd rather pay 1 SB to see how scared everyone is of the flush. Dunno. The more I think about it the more I see positive aspects to both plays. It's something to think about.