No value in raising w/my full house (Live @ Tulalip)

bobdibble · #1 08-15-2005, 04:32 PM

Live 10/20 (Tulalip) - 6 handed

Villian in this hand is a thinking LAG. He is *very* smart and can read hands extremely well. He is also turbo agro, e.g. he 3-bet the turn in a protected pot with second pair no-kicker.

Ultra weak 80/2/.2 player limps UTG, I raise ATs UTG+1, weak/tight tables folds to LAG in the BB, BB calls.

Flop: A A 5 rainbow
Lag checks, UTG checks, I bet, LAG raises, UTG folds, I call.

Turn: J

Lag bets, I raise, Lag 3-bets, I cap.

River: 5

Lag puts out 3 bets. Dealer says, wtf and tells him to pull 2 back. Lag says he is just getting ready to 3-bet my raise.

I call.

The way I figure it, I am chopping at best and losing to 55 or AJ at worst. This guy isn't jacking me up with anything less than an A... right?

TheHammer24 · #2 08-15-2005, 04:37 PM

correct. nh

tyler_cracker · #3 08-15-2005, 04:56 PM

I think you're most likely to chop, so maybe the raise doesn't have any value, but this smells like some kind of angle shot to me. Would he really try to intimidate you out of raising if he had AJ or 55? Also, your casino's rules may vary, but his raise out of turn is probably not a binding action.

bobdibble · #4 08-15-2005, 04:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but his raise out of turn is probably not a binding action.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it isn't. I just called his river bet.

weevil · #5 08-15-2005, 05:06 PM

Definately seems like an angle shot. I'd raise. He's probably trying to shown down a pocket pair, and due to his magical hand reading abilities failed to put you on the ace. (and note that players like this, though they seem intelligent, often miss simple things like ("Hey, I'm not moving him off an ace, and I could see showdown if I check/called!"). And unless he accords you very great respect, he's not going to act like that with the AJ. He doesn't want to frighten you into calling.

tyler_cracker · #6 08-15-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but his raise out of turn is probably not a binding action.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it isn't. I just called his river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean even if you raise, his 3-bet was out of turn and is thus probably not binding. Meaning if he is taking the angle shot, he will probably "change his mind" and call meekly.

bobdibble · #7 08-15-2005, 05:10 PM

So you are saying that this is an 'angle-shoot-value-bet'.. i.e. he wants to make sure a bet goes in on the river, but he is trying to keep me from raising?

tyler_cracker · #8 08-15-2005, 05:12 PM

Also, you might get interesting replies in the B&M forum (if you care about that wacky aspect of the hand).

weevil · #9 08-15-2005, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you are saying that this is an 'angle-shoot-value-bet'.. i.e. he wants to make sure a bet goes in on the river, but he is trying to keep me from raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

That about sums it up, though it could include a pure bluff as well. I think he actually has something here though.

bobdibble · #10 08-15-2005, 06:24 PM

The dude turned over a weak A and then railed on me for about 5 minutes about how I should have raised the river.

I was 99% sure this would have been a bad river raise, but wanted to make sure... especially considering that I had some respect for the rest of his play.

I actually don't think this particular guy was angleshooting with the out of turn 3-bet.. I think he was just having fun, but I could see how angle-shooters may try to pull a move like that.