Motor City Casino Rake Tricks

[JJNJustin]

Motor City Casino in Detroit has a few tricks they use to maximize their hourly profit on low limit games. They usually strive to have three low limit hold'em games going and they keep them all short handed. Usually there are two or three 6 or 7-handed $5-$10 hold'em games. Rather than break one table, they argue "There aren't enough seats to break the third table, a player may have to sit out."

If their $6+$1 badbeat max rake in a full game wasnt bad enough, when asked to lower the rake in the short handed game, they reply "We will lower the rake to $4 with no bad beat." Why they require losing the bad beat possibility, even though the two are independant pools, is the nature of their rake trick. Players do not want to play without the bad beat jackpot possibility. Many of them are counting on hitting the jackpot to supplement their losses in the games. Obviously the bad beat jackpot and the rake are two seperate pools and should have nothing to do with one another, yet the management uses this "trick" to discourage players from asking for a rake reduction when playing short handed. Even if a few wise players still request this reduction, they are overruled by the suckers who are playing to hit the bad beat jackpot.

Consequently, if you play at Motor City, you very frequently end up playing a short handed game will a full rake that is high even for a full 10-handed game. Given the added hands per hour in the short handed game, this results in increased profits for the house, and an increased rake burden for the players.

For example, if the table is reduced to 5 players and you are doubling the number of hands you play per hour, you end up paying twice as much money to the house, on average, as you would in a full table. This equates to a $12 max rake in a full ten handed game.

As if playing low limit hold'em was only marginally profitable enough, Motor City Casino has figured out a way to turn it into a primarily a house game, where the small edge a good player can utilize by playing better than his opponents is effectively neutralized by an extremely high rake.

They compensate for this high rake burden by providing junk food in the form of greasy tortilla chips, mayonaise laised white bread sandwiches, and left over cookies from the buffet. That's a fair trade-off, isn't it? Now instead of supplement your income by playing poker, you can waste your time, sit on your arse, and ruin your health all at the same time!

I've also heard a rumor that they plan on expanding their poker room to include the entire floor. Good luck on finding players who aren't too broke to sit and play at the tables.

-J

[ QUOTE ]
Usually there are two or three 6 or 7-handed $5-$10 hold'em games. Rather than break one table, they argue "There aren't enough seats to break the third table, a player may have to sit out."

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a trick. This is fairly common. One thing you don't mention is that when this happens everybody wants the other table to be broken, no one wants there table to be broken. 7 handed isn't all that short anyway, but if one table just refused to play they would break it. Depending on the time of day and whether they expect more players it might not make any sense to break the games. If you have 3 six handed games going during the dinner hour and you expect to have a bunch of people show up after dinner you don't want to break any games because they will soon be filled up or near filled. Of course if its 3 AM and you don't expect any new players to show up for hours things are a little different.

[ QUOTE ]
For example, if the table is reduced to 5 players and you are doubling the number of hands you play per hour, you end up paying twice as much money to the house, on average, as you would in a full table. This equates to a $12 max rake in a full ten handed game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do they take $6 rake per hand or $6 max? Your statement would only be true if they are taking $6 hand. Certainly a short handed game gets more hands out per hour but many of those hands will have small pots that don't generate max rake (unless they take $6 regardless of pot size).

OF course that rake is way to high to play anyway

[JJNJustin]

This seems to me to occur whenever possible, although more frequently in the late evening. The dont use must-move, either, so the two short tables remain until there are exactly ten live players. As long as players are on the list they refuse to break either table. Also, the rake is $6 max. Granted the pots aren't always as big in the short handed game, but if players start playing aggressively, as they should in the short handed game, the pots do get there. It may not be 100% doubling, but the point is there is no break or reduction, so there is inevitable an overall increase.

-J

[AKQJ10]

You mention a rake, but RussianBear mentions a time charge. I find a $6 per half hour time charge merely exploitative and a $6 per pot rake obscene, but I'm sure they'll do whatever they can get away with.

Are you saying that the max rake there is in fact $6 per pot, not $6 per half hour? And how big does the pot have to be to be raked $6?

[JJNJustin]

The limit games are rake 10% max $6 + $1bad beat per pot.
The nolimit games are time $6/hf for $50/$200, $8/hf for the other larger game.

-J

[AKQJ10]

Ah, my mistake... for some reason I missed that you were talking about limit games in the OP.

Well, 10% to $6 is pretty outrageous, but I guess you don't have a lot of competition there. We're lucky Connecticut won't let Foxwoods get away with similar.

At least the fish there are content to lose thousands as long as it gives them a chance at the BBJ. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] At Foxwoods there is no BBJ and still the fish are content to keep losing money for reasons I only partially grasp.

[ QUOTE ]
This seems to me to occur whenever possible, although more frequently in the late evening. The dont use must-move, either, so the two short tables remain until there are exactly ten live players. As long as players are on the list they refuse to break either table. Also, the rake is $6 max. Granted the pots aren't always as big in the short handed game, but if players start playing aggressively, as they should in the short handed game, the pots do get there. It may not be 100% doubling, but the point is there is no break or reduction, so there is inevitable an overall increase.

-J

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you've lost me. The tables are shorthanded but there is a list?

[Spook]

The list may be from phone ins, who have an hour to get there.

[JJNJustin]

[ QUOTE ]


Now you've lost me. The tables are shorthanded but there is a list?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if they have phone-ins waiting on the list, they wont break any of the tables. For example, if they have three 6-handed games with a few phone-ins, they will hesitate to break the third game because of the phone-ins. Or for example, if they have 5 total seats open, 6 players on the third game, and a few call-ins, they wont break the table. If the players ask to break the table, they sometimes say no, because of the call-ins.
If they have two tables, with two seats open on the main game and 4 players on the short and a few on the list, they let the short game go-on until one of the call-ins comes in. If the players ask to break, they say "Lets give the call-ins another 1/2 hour, " before we break the game.

Another thing they do is use a 7-stud table for a hold'em game. Now when you lose a player or two the game is short.
I hate playing hold 'em on an 8 player max table with their rake.

With their rake, I would prefer a 12 handed game.

-J

[otter]

I haven't seen the stud tables opened the last 5 times I've been there. I was there last weekend and all the tables were open except for those