Protecting my overpair - Page 3

Borno · #21 08-19-2005, 01:23 PM

ok. I bet, call down.

Is that the perfect line? - I'm confused, here I think we're beat 90% of the time here if not more.

Sfer, I know your an awesome player but can you please elaborate a bit on your posts?

sfer · #22 08-19-2005, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ok. I bet, call down.

Is that the perfect line? - I'm confused, here I think we're beat 90% of the time here if not more.

Sfer, I know your an awesome player but can you please elaborate a bit on your posts?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's unknown. Folding an overpair to unknowns is not in my repetoire.

Baloosh · #23 08-19-2005, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]

He's unknown. Folding an overpair to unknowns is not in my repetoire.

[/ QUOTE ]

So then you 3-bet the flop, bet/call the turn and c/c the river?

Sarge85 · #24 08-19-2005, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: (15 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Protecting your overpair? From who?

UTG+1 is already involved in the pot, and with this type of board - assuming he doesn't have the 2, is only drawing to a possible two outs. Do you want protection against a two outer?

The stop and go on the turn is confusing a bit. I probably call down hoping to see TT.

However given the cap PF by MP2 - does anyone Check-Call this down at the turn. (HPFAP - Pg 133-135)

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Sarge85 · #25 08-19-2005, 01:44 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
since mp2 likely has a higher overpair I c/c the turn and river, your not protecting anymore, its HU.

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3-betting the flop and checking the turn to give 6 outers a free river is very bad poker.

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I would agree offering up free river is pooey, however, it seems like your not "listening" to the PF action.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

ricdaman · #26 08-19-2005, 02:12 PM

I'm going against the crowd on this one and suggesting something else.

On the flop, he had the opportunity to 4-bet and didn't. Why? Was he waiting till the turn to put another bet in, or was he scared of being beat? Now, I know you don't have a read on him, but he might have a read on you, even if it's wrong. What does he put you on? You have to ask that question.

He might have you on AK. If he has 77-TT, then he believes he's got you beat even though he doesn't. He might have JJ-KK in which case he think he might have the best hand but isn't sure. He might have AA in which case he's sure he has the best hand, and does. I don't put him on two overcards since he raised the flop.

Now, if I am MP2, then I most definetly raise the turn. If my oppenent has AK (or any non-PP), then my opponent will most likely fold or maybe cold-call, in which case I'm going to lead on the river as well hoping to pick up the pot. If my opponent re-raises (and I have any hand less than AA), then I will consider folding to what appears to be a higher PP. Finally, if my oppenent re-raises (and I have AA), then I will cap.

It costs 2BBs to cold-call the turn and river and see a showdown, in which case the best hand wins.

It costs 2BBs to re-raise the turn and possibly cause MP2 to fold a better hand, while at the same time folding to a cap by MP2. The only down-side is that if MP2 calls the turn re-raise, then you will be forced to put in another bet on the river (giving MP2 another chance to fold), totalling 3BBs to see a showdown, if he calls.

This may not be the best way to play the hand, but it does give you a better chance of winning if your hand is beat by QQ or KK.

Frogic · #27 08-25-2005, 12:13 PM

If you think that QQ or KK is folding I have a bridge to sell your drunk ass.

#28 08-25-2005, 12:26 PM

His play basically screams AA/KK/QQ. I don't play 5/10 but at 2/4, 3/6 I still tend to call these down much. Since he is unknown I don't think a calldown is too bad. With appropriate reads this is probably a correct but difficult fold.

molawn2mo · #29 08-25-2005, 12:41 PM

IMHO, and after having read the replies up until this point, and given that the villain is being defined as an unknown, hero's turn decision after being raised is a function of hero's default view of an unlnown. there are those of us who view unknowns as mildly retarted while others of us view unknowns as mildly reasonable.

OP appears to view an unknown as mildly reasonable and, as such, feels as if now a fold was in order. I agree. With TT and possibly AK spades (allowing for a trun semi-bluff) being the only likely hands that villain holds that hero beats, laydown is prudent. Villain's line (not capping the flop) while holding a big PP is understandable hoping to gain an extra sb at showdown.

If one was to say to me that villain's range of hands when he raised the turn includes AKo, then in that case a call down seems in order. If AK is not a real consideration then I don't see how hero can call the turn raise except for, OK, the metagame issue of folding for 1 bet on the turn and the awkwardness of appearing weak and thinking that the table will now take shots at you.