AKs in the BB - Standard? - Page 3

mason55 · #21 01-25-2005, 06:36 AM

Depending on what level "this level" is, anyone will call a raise with anything from any position. If limiting the field was really an option than a raise from BB with AK would be a good play but I just don't see it at PP25 and lower.

excession · #22 01-25-2005, 09:51 AM

I almost always raise here with Aks or AKo - I want my money in with the best hand pre-flop and to be able to fire at the pot on the flop with the 1 or 2 callers left even if I miss. I will raise it up to $3 for sure pre-flop and would only not fire if I miss and have 3+ callers or if GT+ tells me that a good player is likely sitting on an overpair to a junk flop

Kaz The Original · #23 01-25-2005, 10:50 AM

Listen... pushing is better than checking. Raising 4x the BB + 1 BB per limper is better than pushing.

Why? YOUR HAND IS BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSES. Forget everything else for a moment. You have the best hand. Get money in the pot.

jacobsta · #24 01-25-2005, 11:16 AM

What makes you think A-K is the best hand out there ? That many limpers you probably have 1 or 2 pocket pairs at least- those both have you beat. Plus, AK is NOT a hand that is easy to play in EP, even if you DO hit. Unlike a set even if you do hit with that many limpers you aren't going to be sure you are ahead if you get action. If it is even possible to lay it down. In any case you are NOT the favorite - why would you raise to get money into a pot where you are the dog- (twodimes.net)

Most people with decent, but not GREAT hands
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=730702
pokenum -h 8h 8c - 2c 2s - qd jd - as 4s - jh th - ac kc
Holdem Hi: 658008 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8c 8h 119467 18.16 537810 81.73 731 0.11 0.182
2s 2c 84863 12.90 572414 86.99 731 0.11 0.129
Qd Jd 134110 20.38 517179 78.60 6719 1.02 0.209
As 4s 79497 12.08 572878 87.06 5633 0.86 0.125
Jh Th 104487 15.88 546802 83.10 6719 1.02 0.164
Ac Kc 123963 18.84 528412 80.30 5633 0.86 0.192

A couple of yahoos
pokenum -h 8h 8c - 7c 2s - qd jd - as 4d - jh th - ac kc
Holdem Hi: 658008 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8c 8h 128120 19.47 529316 80.44 572 0.09 0.195
2s 7c 54074 8.22 603362 91.70 572 0.09 0.082
Qd Jd 142649 21.68 508189 77.23 7170 1.09 0.222
As 4d 54632 8.30 596653 90.68 6723 1.02 0.088
Jh Th 123121 18.71 527717 80.20 7170 1.09 0.192
Ac Kc 142091 21.59 509194 77.38 6723 1.02 0.221

As you can see, AKs is NOT the favorite in any case, and even where it is close to par it will be VERY difficult to play some of the pots, especially in a raised pot (where reading hand values can be more difficult and/or more costly).

Contrast that with AA where even if everyone calls you are 33% to win the pot (2x your investment)
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=730711
pokenum -h 8h 8c - 2c 2s - qd jd - as 4s - jh th - ac ad
Holdem Hi: 658008 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8c 8h 103337 15.70 553963 84.19 708 0.11 0.157
2s 2c 83238 12.65 574062 87.24 708 0.11 0.127
Qd Jd 85171 12.94 566254 86.06 6583 1.00 0.134
As 4s 70407 10.70 583844 88.73 3757 0.57 0.109
Jh Th 90461 13.75 560964 85.25 6583 1.00 0.142
Ac Ad 215762 32.79 438489 66.64 3757 0.57 0.330

Unarmed · #25 01-25-2005, 11:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Listen... pushing is better than checking. Raising 4x the BB + 1 BB per limper is better than pushing.

Why? YOUR HAND IS BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSES. Forget everything else for a moment. You have the best hand. Get money in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kaz how can you have 900 posts and write something like that? Say the whole table limps to you with AKs in the BB, what are you going to do raise it to $8.5? With a hand you will hit 1/3 of the time?

This is not a black and white issue and there's definitely a point where it is 100% correct to check AKs in the BB. It may or may not be 6 limpers but to suggest that you should forget all other considerations and just raise is flat out wrong.

ihardlyknowher · #26 01-25-2005, 11:40 AM

If I am getting paid 5:1 when I have a 18.84% chance of winning, I will do it seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Anytime your pot equity exceeds your investment, you are MAKING $$$.

Kaz The Original · #27 01-25-2005, 12:01 PM

I would check AKs if
A) It will grossly make my opponents overplay their flopped Ace top pair.
B) I heavily read a rock for limp/reraising with AA in EP.

Not because my hand only hits 1/3rd of the time. Does this mean we should never raise it at all? So 8 people call me... and I have to check fold 2/3rds of the time. 1/3rd of the time I win a pot 8x the size of normal.

I do not understand this weak tight thinking.

Wayfare · #28 01-25-2005, 12:37 PM

I do not understand how someone with 900 posts can so grossly misunderstand what weak tight means.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

chief444 · #29 01-25-2005, 12:48 PM

What a horrible example. You made a big preflop raise when you had WAY more than your fair share of equity and got 5 callers. Why do you think that is a bad thing? So you misssed the flop this time and check/folded. Big deal. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have raised it preflop.

BradleyT · #30 01-25-2005, 12:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]

How I learned that it may not be the best idea to blast away here. (I think you played this well.)

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (8 handed) converter

Button ($11.95)
SB ($66.10)
Hero ($24.25)
UTG ($21.45)
UTG+1 ($7.40)
MP1 ($10.90)
MP2 ($24.35)
CO ($11.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to $2.25, UTG calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, MP1 calls $2, CO calls $2, SB calls $2.

Flop: ($13.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $8.65 (All-In), CO bets $8.65 (All-In), SB calls $8.65, Hero folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($39.45) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($39.45) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $39.45

Results in white below: 
SB has Jd Qs (high card, queen).
MP1 has Js Th (one pair, tens).
CO has Tc Td (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: CO wins $39.45. 

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had AA here would your raise have been a different amount?