Another Beating

[DJA]

PokerStars $100 buy-in NLHE (blinds 1-2). I have around $200, and I am dealt AA in late position. UTG+1 an aggressive player, makes it 10 to go after UTG limps, 1 caller in between for $10 and I make it $50 to go. UTG+1 calls middle position folds... ~$110 in the pot.

Flop comes K high rags, and my opponent checks. What would you do here? I have ~$150 remaining. I bet all-in and am called like lightning by KK... Again, I can't even blame this guy for anything, he played the same way I would have. I may often just have reraised all-in preflop with KK against many opponents.

Lately, I would be making a lot more money if I wasn't getting big pre-flop hands, they seem to be costing me. That is why I am looking at my post flop play... but really I can't see a way to change the results in these short stack situations.

[Robk]

I think you played this hand fine.

[bugstud]

well, there's $23 in the pot before your raise. Question being, how aggressive are you generally? If you raise a lot, I'd almost be tempted to push in. Your raise committed half your stack and pretty much gives your hand away, so at worst the guy would drop when an A hits (assuming KK and down for initial raiser, thinking you have AA KK AK etc.) I'd be tempted to push in here rather than make the large raise, or smoothcall and try to lose. Then again, I haven't had a whole lot of success in cash games.

[DJA]

Call me greedy, but I want this guy to call my bet. In this particular hand I could have went all-in and I almost guarantee the KK comes with me. This guy isn't laying down KK before the flop.

However, I am not going to bet $200 preflop hoping someone is going to make a huge mistake and call... but maybe I am going to start playing like this because I am getting worked lately.

[bugstud]

Granted, AA is my favorite hand to commit 25% of the chips preflop, but waht do you consider a good win with them? 10X the BB sounds reasonable to me.

[DJA]

The big blind here is $1. I want to win $100. Sure winning $10 is not a bad win, but I got the guy to put in $50 when he was a 4:1 dog. This is obviously much easier to do when the player has KK and you have AA because if it were the other way around you would probably see me put in my money as a 4:1 dog.

But to answer your question, I am generally unsatisfied winning 10X BB with AA. Maybe I should be, but I am not.

Derrick

[AeonBlues]

I offten se AA missplayed in table stakes NL games. You did not missplay that hand at all. Offten I like to raise with hands like AA, KK, and QQ (in postion) based not just on the BB, but also what's in the pot, and stack size I have, and am up against. My theory is, if I raise over 10% of my stack, or the next biggest stack, then I will allways win in the long run, even when I go bust. In my games atleast, I offten get called with hands as week as QJs even. The big raise makes it so, that even when I get busted by trips, I still win in the long run. I think, the most wonderfull thing about NL, is that you can raise high enough to destroy your opponets implied odds, and make any call negative equtity. Which is basicly what you did to KK when you made it $30 to so. Notice that your opponet called for $20, with an implied odd expectation of about 10 to 1 for his money if he flops a set. Which is perfect from your perspective, because he only breaks even when he flops a set. But if no A flops, he will probably go all in with you, which will be $170 in reverse implied odds. This seems like great potential for long run expectations on the hand.

Oh, and ofcourse it's allways a goal to get all in with AA pre flop. This is just common sence, from a gambler's perspective.

AeonBlues

[ArtVandelay]

It is NOT okay to raise to 10% of your stack with a big pair, lose the rest when you get out-flopped, and say "it's okay, I'm making money in the long run." Yes, it is true that when you are dealt a big pair you are achieving positive E.V., but duh, everyone makes money when they get dealt a big pair pre-flop (well, no actually, a lot of bad/new players lose money on average with big pairs if against tough opposition, but you see my point). What you are doing is going to the level of results orientation where you are a winner and being happy about that. At the first level, you lost the hand. At the next level, you were negative E.V. once the money was all-in. At the next level, you were positive E.V. in the long run given that you were dealt a big pair and got called when you raised big pre-flop. At the top level though, what is your E.V. given nothing except that everyone is dealt 2 cards?

[DJA]

This is more of what I am looking for... People have been saying a lot of bet more preflop, but I don't think my preflop play was bad. If anything, my flop play may be bad. Preflop AA is a pretty easy hand to play, but after the flop it is more of a challenge. I am just wondering if I was outplayed on the flop or if I was unlucky. In my mind I think I was unlucky, but you know... could be wearing the poker goggles.

I don't think this hand is easy to get away from after the flop given the stack sizes. It generally costs me $100 to figure out my AA is no good in bigger games, but in these games, that is all that I have.

[ArtVandelay]

I guess I never commented on the actual hand, so here goes. The pre-flop raise is probably the exact same raise I would make. I think you made a mistake on the flop though. It's not something that would have changed the results given that you were against KK, but in general you should consider the following.

There is only a little more than one pot bet left in your stack, and on that flop you pretty much always need to go all-in (unless your opponent is so tight that he'll only play aces and kings for your raise... but I image he would also make the call with AKs, which you get to stack now). So the thing is, you're committed to getting all the money in if you can, so what you need to do is to arrange the betting to maximize the chance that you're opponent will get all-in as well (er, call your all-in, whoever has the smaller stack). Anyway, I would recommend a smaller bet. Unless your opponent is so paranoid that he will fold AK to a smaller bet but call an all-in bet, I would probably say betting something like half-pot would be appropriate here. You didn't say the actual board, so if there are turn cards that can put you in a tough spot then pushing all-in now seems more attractive, but in general I would strongly consider a half-pot or similar bet in this spot. Of course you would have gotten stacked anyway, but in the future it's something to think about.