How much to bet Discussion

[PuppetMaster]

Right now the biggest leak in my game is not betting the proper amount on a hand. Is there any section of a book or article which talks in depth on how much you should bet in certain situations and why? I own Pot Limit and No Limit but it doesnt go into any detail on bet size.

[Guy McSucker]

I own Pot Limit and No Limit but it doesnt go into any detail on bet size.

It contains a chapter called "How much to bet".

Guy.

[RollaJ]

There is a section in the book Improve Your Poker , by Ciaffone called how much to bet, it is in the bei bet poker section

[crockpot]

it depends a lot on what game(s) you're playing. in pot limit omaha you should generally bet the pot unless you're making what Ciaffone calls an 'either-or' bet with a three-flush or pair on the board. (i'm assuming you face opponents who are capable of folding if they don't have much of a hand facing this bet)

in games like hold 'em, the most important thing is to give a bad price to any draw your opponent might be on, as he can't have a super-draw like in omaha. your position matters a lot too in these situations, as does your read on the opponent and the opponent's skill level. it's a big advantage if they can't recognize when you make a bet and intend to fold to a raise.

[Ignatius]

If you always bet the pot and move in if this would take more than 40% of your remaining stack, then you will never make much of a mistake and will not leak any information.

[DJA]

My thought process is like this:

1. Do I think I have the best hand? If I do, what is my opponent on? I then try to get my opponent to make a mistake. For instance if I think he is on a 9 outer in NLHE, I will bet so that he is making a mistake to call me. Now you should know how good your opponenent is playing and try to get him to make the biggest mistake possible. For instance if your opponent is playing like a mental midget, overbet the pot by 10X he may call. If your opponent is playing well this obviously will not work.

2. If I don't have the best hand, what are my chances of improving to the best hand and what are my chances of moving my opponent off the best hand? For instance if my opponent raised 4X the blind from UTG and he is a rock, and I have a pair of 7's or something I may call and try to spike hoping he will pay me off with his overpair. If the board comes 9d 9s 2c I may try and move him off his hand because I know he will not like the paired board, as he plays scared. Now I bet enough to move him off his hand, for instance a pot sized bet or raise. I don't try to move opponents off hands with huge overbets. This back fires way too often.

I really don't think there is a formula you can follow for betting. If you want to follow a pattern use the pot sized bet thing, but I don't like doing that. The better my opponents are though, the closer I come to this format.

Just My Thoughts,

[PuppetMaster]

That chapter is onyl 3 pages and basically discusses the politics of whether or not to bet the pot to the nearest dollar because it delays the game. THat section is totally useless.

[Daithi]

teddy,

I agree with Ignatius. Here are a couple exceptions.

PRE-FLOP
Either limp, bring in for 3xBB, or raise 2xPot when limiting field of limpers.

If there is enough money in the pot I like to move all-in with AA and KK. Sometimes I move all-in with AK as well.

In tournaments, when the blinds start getting up there, an all-in bet with any Ace and a relatively short stack is another nice play.

If you have been stealing the blinds alot and someone pops you back with a raise then I also may consider moving all-in (I'd have to have any Ace or a pair in my hand).

FLOP
If I have a monster and I am bet into I may move all-in.

Likewise, if I have something like 2nd pair and the nut flush draw and someone bets into me I'll move it all-in. (Credit to FossilMan).

In a tournament I may have raised and gotten called pre-flop. If I have already commited a substantial part of my stack I may move all-in regardless of whether I hit the flop or or not (technically I think this falls under Ignatius' 40% rule).

There are exceptions to the exceptions as well. If the money is really deep I may not move all-in but would be willing to over bet the pot instead (but I would not over bet the pot in a consistant manner).

[ArtVandelay]

Assuming you're new to big-bet poker, I recommend always betting/raising exactly the pot, or close enough to it. You give away no information this way, and you're never far wrong. Also, I disagree with Ignatius that if a pot bet/raise is 40% of your stack you should push all-in. That would have you betting 2.5 times the pot in some situations, which is generally wrong. If the pot bet/raise would be maybe 80% of your stack then the last 20% isn't far wrong (especially if you don't want to have a tough decision on the next street when certain cards hit), but I think even up to 60% or 70% of your stack you're probably fine just going pot as normal.

Once you've played lots of hours and learned some of the elements unique to big bet then you should start playing around with different bet sizes. Another common one is half-pot, and after that anything goes. You can do clever things like bet an ammount on the flop so that on the turn you have exactly one pot-bet left in your stack, or you can bet an amount giving your opponent exact odds for a flush draw. When you raise pre-flop and it looks like the flop missed you, you can bet small when you actually flopped big trying to induce a bluff. When you flopped trips from the blinds and it's check around on the flop you can "steal" it with a big bet only to crush the guy who tries to re-steal with a large raise. As expected there are innumerable possibilities, and it's one of the funnest, most creative aspects of the game.

However, I STRONGLY recommend that when starting out you confine yourself to always bet/raise the pot.

[Guy McSucker]

Sorry, you're right, it's very short. But I knew that I had read good stuff in a Ciaffone book and jumped in to give you that reference without checking it properly. I apologise.

There is good material in Ciaffone's "Improve Your Poker" (also called "How much to bet" I think) and also in the chapter on hold'em in the Reuben/Ciaffone book, which discusses when it is a good idea to overbet the pot.

As a general rule of thumb I like to bet around the pot, rounding it down or up to a flat figure most of the time. With the nuts on the river, last to act, obviously you bet as much as you think your opponents will call.

In no-limit, I don't bet the pot if it's half my stack or close: I go all-in.

There are sometimes sophisticated reasons for betting a different amount, as described in the chapter I mentioned first. For example, if you're first to act and the button is short stacked, betting less than half his stack poses a threat to the players in between: if they call and the button moves in, you can reraise. Similarly, betting over half his stack might make them more likely to call, since if he raises all-in, you can't reraise. Opportunities to exploit this are very rare, though.

Guy.