Taking advantage, ethical question

[toots]

Thank you. I'm glad someone said it. I'm particularly glad someone said it before I did, because I wouldn't have done such a good job of stating the case.

I've often wondered whether you'd find a higher percentage of sociopathy among poker players, compared to the general population. Some of the more self-serving statements I've seen in this forum makes me think "yes."

[Lawrence Ng]

Grifter,

I thought you were very classy and honest in telling your fellow opponent that you were going to clean him to the felt. If he wants to check it down, that is his perogative and I believe you should play it the way you feel right or comfortable. No exploitations here IMO.

This reminds me though of a time I played with this other player. He was a horrible loose player.

On the turn, he raised my bet. I check-called him on the river. He showed me the nuts. He was sitting next to me and showed me his hand and then proceeded to muck his hand before laying it down on the felt. I still had my hand and then the dealer began to shove me the pot.

Well, needless to say he started getting upset. I began telling him that he had to lay his hand down on the table to make it a live hand, but now his hand was in the muck it was dead.

Now here I was faced with a moral issue. I saw his hand, I knew he had me beat, but because the casino rule is that if you hand is in the muck, it's dead and the other player's hand is live.

I have also always believed that poker is a game where you take advantage and capitalize on other people's mistakes. Needless to say this was a very big mistake on his part.

I wound up giving him the pot because it was the "right" thing for me to do. He was a bad player anyways and eventually would give it back, plus I did not want him leaving the table. I told him never to muck his hand like that again because I would not be such a good sport and that no other player on the table would give him the pot.

Funny how things work out sometimes, a few hands later I missed a draw heads up with him and he threw his hand away on the river after showing me a set. He patted me on the bac told me to take the pot down. Karma does work I guess. He was very impressed with my integrity.

[chesspain]

You did the right thing by giving him the pot. The fact that he showed you his hand the way he did means that you both knew he had the better hand. Although many players in your shoes might have felt justfied in keeping at least half of the pot, giving him the entire pot was the moral way to handle it.

Reminds me of a hand I saw playing 2/4 at the Orleans:

Twenty-something guy, who looked and sounded like he just stepped off the LIRR (you NYC boys will know what I mean) is sitting two seats to my right in the #1 seat, drunk and having a great time playing fast and loose. On a river where the board looks like: x77xx, a young Asian guy shows his one pair of something, after which LIRR-guy flashes his 7, and drops his other card face down right on top of the muck. The dealer then proceeds to ship the pot to young Asian guy, saying that LIRR-guy needs to show two unmucked cards to win the pot.

Not surprisingly, LIRR-guy goes berserk, saying things like "Come on...give me a break...I'm new...you all know I had the best hand, etc." Of course, the floor rules against him, and then he begins to really whine and sulk. Fortunately, over the next hour I was able to jolly him back up, and he proceeded to have a good time again, even being able to eventually laugh at himself after the sting of this lost pot wore off.

However, what I found most disturbing was that his opponent did not even offer to split the pot with him, which is what I believe most decent players would have offered to do. Or maybe I'm just less cutthroat than others.