Not another Fold KK preflop post

[schwza]

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By limp-re-raising or re-re-raising pre-flop, your opponent is basically telling you he has aces. Why not believe him?I figure just because a player is an unknown, it doesn't mean he is a maniac.

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maybe he's not a maniac, but can make a well-timed re-bluff after openning, say, AQs in UTG. if an opponent ever figured out that you'd lay down KK in a particular situation, you'd find yourself getting run over IMO.

[SlyAK]

I personally have folded KK preflop 3 times... 2 of the times the other guy ended up all-in against another player, (short stack or something) and had AA, the other time he mucked. All of my times folding KK were against good online players and I had a decent stack. I think KK should only be folded with a decent stack against a solid opponent... below is an example of a KK hand from last night.

Prima 100 max game, I have $74... one EP player raises to $3, I re-raise to $10 with black cowboys K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in MP. I am then min raised to $17 by LMP. All fold to me and I push. Re-raiser calls with A4o!!! I flopped a set, turned quads and doubled up. In any case this is an example of where the third raise wasnt AA and actually wasnt even a "playable hand." This will happen A LOT online, so take advantage of those cowboys and push it in.

Sly

[The Ocho]

Of course you're right. I would never, never, never, never let my opponent know I had mucked KK preflop in that situation. That would be a disaster.

[The Ocho]

I'm assuming deep stacks here. I very rarely play for all my chips preflop, because frankly I get dealt aces about once every 6 trillion hands. And the times I DO get aces, it is folded around to me in the BB. If the stacks were short and the majority of players in the game overplay their hands (as they are/do in most online games), then I'm more inclined to agree with you that it is rarely correct to fold KK preflop. But with deep stacks, it is another story entirely.

I still maintain that the most likely hand for a limp-re-raiser is aces, no matter how many people I see post hands where somebody jacked it up with pocket 9s, KQo, or whatever. If the money is deep and a guy is gunning to get my stack in the middle pre-flop, I'm pretty confident that he has aces, and am willing to play my hand accordingly.

[Jason Strasser]

In my experience, the limp, mini-reraise is aces nearly 90% of the time. A limp raise can be a lot more than aces. I personally sometimes limp raise with hands a lot worse than aces.

[knifeandfork]

i agree play the cowboys for set value! would not fold here no way no how. i thought about folding kings twice preflop once really thought a bout it a lot when it was all in, all in, all in, in front of me in a tournament(rebuy) but still, mustered up enough to call and was suddenly the chip leader when TT, JJ, and AQs were turned in that order. (i think i was a slight dog to the field in this situation but im not a math person). a simple way to figure odds preflop for my little mind would be appreciated ( i know most from memory but not against more that 1 opponent). the other time i reraised a guy in ep on a short stack he pushed the caller of his raise called his push and i called seeing pusher show qq and caller aqs. how lucky! and went on to third in that tournament. so even with the added risk or tourney play im going to have to have a great read t foldem. i think ten years agao we could ahve had a better debate but not now not in the "boom"
jason