Long Time No Post : AJo on the Button

[Justin A]

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weaker aces will probably call, and as a bonus the A7/T7 hands are pissed now

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Just a little thing, but AT is still ahead of him.

[NLSoldier]

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weaker aces will probably call, and as a bonus the A7/T7 hands are pissed now

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Just a little thing, but AT is still ahead of him.

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Just a little thing, but read the post you quoted again.

[Justin A]

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weaker aces will probably call, and as a bonus the A7/T7 hands are pissed now

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Just a little thing, but AT is still ahead of him.

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Just a little thing, but read the post you quoted again.

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7's and T's look alike. Damn.

[Evan]

I still don't understand why this is better than rasing the turn. Everyone is saying "standard" and "nice play" but I don't think this is how most people play it. Why not raise the turn? I do not think he is folding an ace and that is basically all we care about, right? I mean, we're not counting on him putting in all these bets with less than an ace I would think. What if he pusses out and checks the river? I just don't see what you get from waiting.

If he is on a draw, your raise on the turn guarantees you a an extra bet. If he reraises you back, and you feel you're beat, you can either: Call him down (a total of three bets) or fold (save two bets). You are either maxing your value or saving $$. Either way, I see nothing wrong here.

If he has an ace, maybe he folds, but more likely he'll call one more time, as the pot is already large enough to justify a call. You MAY lose a big bet on the river by doing this, but since you raised off the flop, just calling on the turn is just as suspicious as raising on it. I say, get your money in when you can.

The only time Villain folds is if he has a small pair, but I don't see him playing a small pair this way. The board is A 7 10 9 on the turn. 1010 and 99, he's raising preflop. He may play 77-88 the way he did, but I see him raising preflop with these hands too. 22-66, he's not playing the flop this way; too tough to put him on these hands if he is, I'm not really considering them at this point.

Your best bet is that he either has two pair, an A, or he's on a draw. Get your money in on the turn, go from there. Most of the time, you'll be maximizing value if you are ahead, and a good laydown can only happen if you pick up something on the turn.

Argun

[ResidentParanoid]

Well analyzed. I think GOT is off on this one.

[GuyOnTilt]

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I still don't understand why this is better than rasing the turn. Everyone is saying "standard" and "nice play" but I don't think this is how most people play it.

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Hey Evan,

You are right of course that the standard play here is to 3bet the flop. Like you, I doubt that many people wait till the river here.

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Why not raise the turn? I do not think he is folding an ace and that is basically all we care about, right? I mean, we're not counting on him putting in all these bets with less than an ace I would think.

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There haven't been that many bets put in so far. The guy defended his blind versus a Button isoraise and check-raised the flop. He doesn't need to have an Ace here, though he probably will most of the time he has a pair. The reason not to raise the turn here is because we cannot fold to a 3bet. It is not super unlikely he has us beat. The two-pair hands out there are ones that will def be in his range here, and getting 3bet sucks here given the size of the pot and the fact that I cannot fold the turn. At the same time it's not highly unlikely I could be beat here, it's also not highly likely I am, and I would like to extract value somewhere if it's possible to at some point. That point is the river, where I can fold to a 3bet very easily and clearly. Aces are still calling here, as my hand up to this point looks nothing like a strong Ace, and I would not be surprised at all if he couldn't fold a T which he decided to bet for value on the river.

GoT

[Justin A]

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and I would like to extract value somewhere if it's possible to at some point. That point is the river, where I can fold to a 3bet very easily and clearly.

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I'd like to add that you'll very rarely be 3bet even with hands that have you beat once you raise the river. It goes with what you said but I think it's an important point in hands like this.

[ResidentParanoid]

I don't get why this is any better than the other options. I can see why it is worse, allowing draws to get in with fewer bets on the flop and turn, and getting less info about the opponent's hand.

This looks like a slow-play to trap an aggro. I don't like that here as a routine approach.

[Entity]

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I don't get why this is any better than the other options. I can see why it is worse, allowing draws to get in with fewer bets on the flop and turn, and getting less info about the opponent's hand.

This looks like a slow-play to trap an aggro. I don't like that here as a routine approach.

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It's not a slowplay at all. Read GoT's analysis at the end of the thread if you haven't already; the large part of this is that while you're possibly ahead, that turn card wasn't great for you given A) his flop checkraise (often a weaker hand -- of which hands like T9 etc. will often be in his range), and the fact that we can't fold to a turn 3-bet.

Rob