Would you kill a man who's robbing you? (long)

[nef]

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in texas i think you may have been charged. there was a somewhat similiar case here in austin about 10 years ago and the woman was convicted (although i forget the exact offense).

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I don't remember Big Steve's case, but the requirements for using deadly force in Texas are about as favorable to the victim as any state. It is legal to use deadly force to prevent theft as well as bodily harm, and if someone is in your home. In other words, you can shoot people who need shootin'. I paraphrase below.

Deadly Force- It is a defense to prosecution that the conduct in question is justified under this chapter.

* § 9.21. Public Duty.
* § 9.22. Necessity.
* § 9.31. Self-Defense.
* § 9.32. Deadly Force In Defense Of Person.
* 9.33. Defense Of Third Person.
* § 9.34. Protection Of Life Or Health.
* § 9.41. Protection Of One's Own Property.
* § 9.42. Deadly Force To Protect Property.
* § 9.43. Protection Of Third Person's Property.
* § 9.44. Use Of Device To Protect Property

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm

As a response to the OP, yes I would shoot someone who threatened me with a knife in my bedroom unless he surrendered immediately upon seeing my gun. Once the guy leaves, [censored] it, I grab my gun and make sure he left. Im not leaving my house to chase a criminal and I'm not shooting anyone running away with my stuff.

Bottom line, shooting a guy who is robbing you in your room at knifepoint is a good shoot. Be happy it didn't escalate and this guy wasn't psycho. Shooting someone to defend yourself will probably ruin your life, at least financially, possibly psychologically as well. Expect to get sued civilly and possibly prosecuted. If you do have a gun in your room for a situation like this, know your laws, and get some training.

Also, all of this shooting to wound / warning shots is hollywood crap.

[Blarg]

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I don't know if I'd be able to kill him. I'd like to think that I could, but I just don't know.

Anyway, what happened to the guy? Did he get arrested? Did you get your stuff back?

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I didn't get my stuff back. The guy got probation. Isn't that messed up? He had an arrested warrant elsewhere too.

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Your Government at Work.

They've filled up the jail cells with people caught smoking pot or crack so the real crooks can go free.

[Blarg]

Expect to be visited by the gun wielding scumbag friends and relatives of the scumbag. This will happen when the police have already confiscated your gun. This is why it's good to have a second gun that you are also very familiar with if you have a first. Expect vandalism, threats, etc. (This according to Masaad Ayoob, who often writes of such scenarios from his experience as a law enforcement officer and professional witness in court cases.) If I were a renter, I would give my notice and move as soon as possible.

Regarding shooting in defense of one's property, I don't think that's legal in every state.

[nef]

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Regarding shooting in defense of one's property, I don't think that's legal in every state.

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Yes, I worded that poorly. I meant Texas has *more* favorable laws than about any state.

[bernie]

If I had a gun under my pillow, he'd be dead. No remorse on my part at all. F*ck him.

b

I didn't read the other posts, but I would without a doubt end their life if the opportunity came up while it was happening. Why would you even think about sparing someone who is threatening your life, taking your belongings, and tresspassing on your property? What has he done that shows he deserves to continue living? I offer no mercy.

A man within 30 feet of you with a bandana over his face and a knife in his hand is clearly a direct and immediate threat to your life. Shoot for the upper body. This is not about protecting a Gamecube; it is about surviving. Fortunately, this situation had the best possible result for the OP, survival. But if you have a gun under the pillow and he's approaching you with a knife, the correct thing to do is immediately shoot him. You are trying to stop him, not trying to kill him. If he dies from the gunshot, sorry about his luck, but he brought that upon himself.

I read about two pages of responses but stopped when I couldn't take reading any more of the idiotic things people were saying. People who know nothing about guns saying "kneecap him." People who know nothing about knives saying, "it's just a knife." People saying "just threaten to shoot him," ignoring the fact of how quickly an attacker can run 10 feet and cut you up. People saying "armed thieves hardly every hurt their victims;" but you don't know if this is one of those times when the thief will attack. This is about protecting your life. Amazing that so many here put no thought into a near death experience situation and then just blurt out something utterly stupid.

I want to congratulate the OP on surviving this situation. You handled it the best way possible, since you were unarmed, and you achieved the best possible result, survival.

[shadow29]

John Locke says that I should.

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Sect. 18. This makes it lawful for a man to kill a thief, who has not in the least hurt him, nor declared any design upon his life, any farther than, by the use of force, so to get him in his power, as to take away his money, or what he pleases, from him; because using force, where he has no right, to get me into his power, let his pretence be what it will, I have no reason to suppose, that he, who would take away my liberty, would not, when he had me in his power, take away every thing else. And therefore it is lawful for me to treat him as one who has put himself into a state of war with me, i.e. kill him if I can; for to that hazard does he justly expose himself, whoever introduces a state of war, and is aggressor in it.

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Once someone has you in his power, you lose all liberty. Thus, even if a thief says that he's just going to take your stuff, you have no guarantee that he won't do anything else. He has all the power, you have none, thus he can do whatever he wants.

So, yes, I'd cap that muthafuca.

[Blarg]

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People saying "armed thieves hardly every hurt their victims;" but you don't know if this is one of those times when the thief will attack.

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I think this is a critical factor that I think should have been focused on more. I didn't say anything myself at the time because the abuse was getting too ugly in this thread.

But it is absolutely central. Playing with your life is playing for the highest stakes possible, and you just can't afford to take a lot of chances and hope for the best. Whether a guy lights your car on fire or something is one thing; you'll live either way. But if one of the ooutcomes of a situation is that you might die, all the statistics in the world don't mean a damn thing. You just can't afford to take that chance, any more than you can afford to take the chance in a game of Russian roulette, which also has pretty damn good odds that no harm will come. When the stakes include catastrophe, it's not okay just to play around because you figure your odds, well, anyway could be worse. This is a game YOU MUST WIN.

I don't need the opinions of a bunch of social scientists and policy wonks and internet smartasses at a moment like that. I just need to live and let other people argue about it later, even if it is in court. Statistics are of no use to you in those situations, because you can't afford to be a statistical anomaly.

Circle of life my ass.

[bwana devil]

good research nef. appreciate the work.

the issue i raised in bigsteve's case though is he left the house and went outside to see what the noise was. someone was in his exterior garage and he shot him there. i believe steve was standing out completely outside the garage also but i may be mistaken on that.

had steve been in texas and the person walked into the house, steve could have shot him no problem. the sticky situation arises that steve left his house w/ gun in hand to investigate the noise.

ill explain the other case i mentioned in a bit. multi tabling right now.

bwana