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#21
12-12-2005, 05:52 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't think so, I think on this drawless flop you're usually hosed at the $30s after the 3-bet all-in. [/ QUOTE ] By what? I doubt you will, but don't list off hands that beat you, list off why he played them like that and how often you think a player would play them like that. [/ QUOTE ] when the small blind leads out into this tiny multiway pot on a board that could easily get checked around, it makes me suspect that he's trying to build a pot. would it seem worth it to him to bet a marginal hand into this 4-way 60-chip pot, trying to take it down? i don't think so, not most of the time. so when he bets i think he has at least a Jack the large majority of the time. the MP guy calls and then the LP guy makes a small raise. the SB has to figure it's pretty likely that at least one of his opponents has a Jack. the reason i think you're beat most of the time when he 3-bets is that i think the average player at this level doesn't expect his opponent to be able to fold any sort of decent Jack here. if our villain in fact thinks this way, he's quite likely to 3-bet here with a hand that can beat TPTK because he figures to get called, and doesn't want to lose his action to any one of 12 turn scare cards. buuut i dunno if he goes ahead and pushes with a hand like QJ or JT as eagerly, cos if one of his opponents has a Jack, it doesn't figure to be smaller than J9 or so. then again he might have expected AJ & KJ to raise in LP cos he would often have raised there himself. hmmm i'm talking myself into a call as I go. still, i do think that you'll often see a better hand here for the reasons I gave. [/ QUOTE ] Nice post. I think this decision is as close as you imply, I figure sb often has two pair here. 
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#22
12-12-2005, 05:55 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
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I play the hand like you did, but I call on the end. I think he has a worse J a lot. He wouldn't play a set that fast in the 800 chippers, and the same is usually true of two pair... he would however play JT that fast... [/ QUOTE ] Seconded!
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#23
12-12-2005, 07:59 AM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
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Um, this is a bad fold. Villain has a worse J here a very large % of the time. Think about this, if he had a monster on this RAGGGGY board, why would he lead? I would be much more happy with folding if he had checkraised you. I think this is a HORRIBLE fold. People are giving away their money during the early levels, and you should be making these calls with TPTK all day on such a nice flop. [/ QUOTE ] hypothically, IF someone had position (let's say button was in also) and pushed, is it then a clear fold or at least a tough decision? this is assuming the initial bettor (SB) folded. thanks, jc
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#24
12-12-2005, 12:44 PM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
This is one of those calls I see other people make all the time and lose their whole stack.
In fact, it happens so often, there is a rule to avoid it. Rule: Don't call all-in in unraised pots with only top pair. If someone likes the board that bad, they've got you beat. If that's me in the blinds, I probably have 62 or J2. I might not necessarily play J6 that fast, but crazy things happen when you have 2 pair with the bottom card, esp a deuce...I play those fast. If you want to play AJ for top pair value in a monster pot, raise preflop and control the betting.
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#27
12-12-2005, 01:15 PM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
If these were the 100's, I would fold and expect the SB to have exactly 62, maybe J2.
In the 30's, he has 88 and 72o enough to call, but it's not really THAT clearcut and I wouldn't say it's a 'bad' fold.
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#28
12-12-2005, 01:19 PM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
If you limp in with AJo, you're look to hit a bigger hand than TPTK, aren't you? AJo doesn't seem like a good hand to play like this to me. It's not a good multiway hand.
If you do hit TPTK, and call the flop, how far to you keep calling? Are you calling the flop hoping it get's checked down? Or are you trapping with it, planning on calling all the way?
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#29
12-12-2005, 01:27 PM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
[ QUOTE ]
If you limp in with AJo, you're look to hit a bigger hand than TPTK, aren't you? AJo doesn't seem like a good hand to play like this to me. It's not a good multiway hand. If you do hit TPTK, and call the flop, how far to you keep calling? Are you calling the flop hoping it get's checked down? Or are you trapping with it, planning on calling all the way? [/ QUOTE ] yeah, i'd obviously like to have something better than 1 pair before i stick a bunch of chips in, but AJ makes something better than 1 pair less often than 95o does, so i'm not exactly playing it for trips/2 pair value. my plan is to win a medium pot with a one pair hand, but sometimes i wind up with everything in the middle. calling down all the way is also an ok option, but you hate to see that you let 2nd pair hit his kicker or something.
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#30
12-12-2005, 01:28 PM
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Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?
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Nobody is raising AJ from the button preflop here? Why are we letting MP1 and the blinds in for a cheap flop? [/ QUOTE ] lurking around here to pick up a few tips. Mainly play limit. Please correct me but I am raising 99% of the time pre flop for this exact reason. I do not want to have a decision against j6 or whatever trash the blinds might have. You hand has +EV from late postion.Dont let the blinds play for free.
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