shades of fascism: Peace shirts outlawed

[Mark Heide]

hudini36,

Here's a link to the full story, just so we can get the facts accurate:

http://www.msnbc.com/local/WNYT/M276307.asp

What really happened here is what I've been talking about previously. This is an example of our society censoring the views of other people. When someone here thought that I was from a different planet, because I thought that censorship here was not different from the former Soviet Union. It's not!

A countries ideology is supported by the majority. If this viewpoint does not agree with that ideology, the majority will seek some method to suppress it.

This example is a perfect example of suppressing the rights of other individuals. It's done in every country.

Another example in the US was the suppression of the movie The Last Temptation of Christ. The Catholic Church was outraged. They had managed to protest it so well that you could only see this movie in a few art film theaters across the country.

So, in the United States we usually do not have the government doing it, but our own citizens using powerful organizations to suppress information like religious groups and corporations. Capitalism just suppresses freedoms using methods that are different from other ideologies like Socialism.

Mark

[MMMMMM]

Mark, you must also consider degree and type of censorship.

Just because some forms of censorship may exist in two separate arenas, doesn't mean they are entirely equivalent. Even if they are equivalent in some ways they may still be distinct in other ways.

Censoring all of a newspaper's articles to mold to the Party line is obviously different than censoring only some articles, while still allowing other articles to be published which are in fact opposing viewpoints--and this is true regardless of your definition of censorship.

We have articles published in our major news media--Time magazine for example--that are highly critical of our government's policies. This simply didn't happen in the Soviet Union or under Mao-Tse Tung, nor does it happen in North Korea today. Also, our government doesn't arrest journalists who deviate from the "party line."

Can't you see the differences outlined above?

We have a variety of opinions expressed in our news media--quite a wide variety actually. In Red China, and in the USSR, the media expressed one point of view.


The mere fact that a wide variety of differing opinions are expressed here is a testament to the relative lack of censorship. Do you want to try to make the argument that we are censoring all but, say, 1,000 different viewpoints? At any rate, that's a helluva lot less censorship than censoring all but one viewpoint.

[Zeno]

They are important legal issues that have not been mentioned in all this hoopla. Malls are private property. But malls are, almost by defalt, considered public space by most people.

Also, the use of the term fascism is a bit much. Fascism is much, much more than a silly incident about a T-shirt at a local mall.

-Zeno

[Mark Heide]

M,

The problem with measuring censorship in degrees or types is that the degree or type needs to be objectively viewed in comparison to the person measuring censorship based on his ideology. In other words, it's impossible to measure the degrees and types unless your ideology is neither US Capitalism, Russian Socialism, or a combination of both.

The Soviet Union operated from a centralized point of view. Pravda was supported by the majority of it's population for quite some time, because it reflected the views of the majority. It was the minority that objected and became dissidents that the US government exploited during the propaganda war between us and them. I think the propaganda from the Cold War has clouded the thinking of many Americans, besides having biases from viewing the world from a Capitalistic viewpoint.

I was watching the BBC World News tonight. They did a report on Russia. The BBC did a survey that stated that 30% of the population liked Stalin and what he did for Russia (I know it's not the majority, but the percentage of citizens liking Stalin has been going up). I believe the reason for this is the comfort level for the average citizen in the Soviet Union was much better than today with todays failed attempt at capitalism. If I find the story on the web I'll post it.

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

Why is the word "set" only used to describe three-of-a-kind in poker? [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Bill Murphy]

..this was absolutely ridiculous, and Bush ought to strongly condemn it.

BTW I'm also in favor of dragging suspected Al-Qaeda off to Russell's Old Room on some Uzbeki airbase and "interrogating" 'em w/a pair of pliers & a blowtorch.

[andyfox]

"Their behavior, coupled with their clothing, to express to others their personal views on world affairs were disruptive of customers."

Huh?

[andyfox]

After a year in which they had won every game they played, Bill Walton reported to UCLA's first practice the next year looking like he hadn't had a haircut since the previous year's championship game. Probably he hadn't.

Coach Wooden told him to get off the floor. Walton told him he had no right to tell him how to wear his hair. Wooden told Walton, yes, you're absolutely right. But I do have a right to decide who is going to play on this basketball team, and Bill, we're gonna miss you an awful lot.

Walton got on his bike, raced into town, got a haircut, and raced back.

[brad]

you think if people realize war is imminent theyre gonna spend money on the crap they have at the mall? come on

[hudini36]

Fascism is the correct term. A government run for the sole purpose of enforcing coporate policy through force and suspension of civil liberties. To begin with, Bush was not elected. Secondly, the Patriot Act abolishes the right to legal counsel, the right to Habeus Corpus, and the abolishes the IV amendment against illegal search and seizure. Attacking Iraq for oil is fascist. Iraq has not taken offensive action against the USA. Bush's Christianity is a fundamentalist form.He probably believes himself to be chosen by Jesus to conquer Islam. If it brings about nuclear war, so much the better for these loons. They believe that only through apocalypse can Jesus return.

This country looks and sounds more and more like Nazi Germany everyday. The main difference is that Jews have been replaced by Muslims as the target of intense discrimination.