TPTK, Nutflush Draw, Out of Position

SnakeRat · #1 08-13-2004, 04:28 PM

Opponent was a tightish ABC type.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Whats the best way to attack this one?

Any guesses on villain's holding?

Thoughts appreciated.

me454555 · #2 08-13-2004, 04:32 PM

3 bet the flop, call the turn raise if you 3 bet the flop.

mikeyvegas · #3 08-13-2004, 04:35 PM

I like your line, I would have played it the same.

StellarWind · #4 08-13-2004, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Opponent was a tightish ABC type.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know exactly what this means or what MP2 is like. However, the idea behind raising ATs preflop is that they play trash and therefore you have a big edge on average.

It sounds like this opponent's average UTG limping hand may be an even match for ATs when shorthanded. You are out-of-position and your raise gives a lot of information compared with checking. At some point these factors become more important than a dwindling edge in hand strength and you should consider checking preflop.

I would 3-bet because I fear him taking a free card with a dominated flush draw. The negative EV of that is terrible. Your checkraise play is also reasonable.

[ QUOTE ]
Any guesses on villain's holding?

[/ QUOTE ]
Likely: 88-66, suited ten-paint, AT.
Others: A4s, A2s, 33.

MoreWineII · #5 08-13-2004, 05:40 PM

I prefer 3-betting the flop and leading the turn but your line is reasonable too.

BaronVonCP · #6 08-13-2004, 05:43 PM

3bet the flop, you don't want him taking a free one.

SnakeRat · #7 08-13-2004, 05:51 PM

I was worried he would fold a T or middle pair if I 3-bet the flop and bet the turn, that looks to be the better default play however.

I guess I didn't have a good read on him as he showed me 44 for a near nut hand.
Its funny how people always seem to 3-bet me with garbage and call me with monsters in this game.

W. Deranged · #8 08-13-2004, 05:52 PM

1. I probably would check and take a flop here, as you are unlikely to be that far ahead, particularly if the MP player is a tight and uncreative type.

2. I originally was going to post a comment that you should three-bet the flop, but I really think that your play is best here. You get an extra half-bet in with what is certainly the best hand (JJ or higher would have likely raised pre-flop, so the only hands you're worried about are 44 and 22, and you'll take the risk of those). If the raise is a free card play from your opponent (with KdQd or similar), then I think that your play is still correct, because even if the turn is checked through, you are almost certainly going to be able to collect three bets on the river if the flush comes, unless your opponent is very weak. (The turn goes check-check... you bet the river, your opponent raises with the bad flush, you three-bet... if you're lucky, your opponent may even put in a fourth bet and then you're really in the money.) I think the added EV from the extra-half bet on the flop when the check-raise works, plus the extra bets earned if the flush comes outweigh the times when the turn gets checked and you lose a bet there.

StellarWind · #9 08-13-2004, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
because even if the turn is checked through, you are almost certainly going to be able to collect three bets on the river if the flush comes

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this idea. Calling the flop and checking the turn is something a nut flush draw would probably do. 3-betting the flop, betting the turn, and generally being a total bully is what a made hand would do.

I would expect the 3-bet, aggressive line to be more likely to get excess action when the flush hits on the river.

Not that I think it matters. Probably you get raised by a flush no matter what.

Garland · #10 08-13-2004, 06:10 PM

Preflop: I'm not too thrilled about the raise because of the nature of your opponent (ABC-tightish), but ok.

Flop: Easy 3-bet

Turn: Given that you didn't 3-bet, your check-raise was fine. Otherwise, lead if you 3-bet.

River: Plays itself

Your opponent probably has a weaker 10 like K10 or Q10. He possibly has A10. And if he's playing tight, they should all be suited from UTG.

Garland